If the US withdraws from South Korea, the war will resume overnight. We've maintained a force of betwen 25,000-100,000 troops in the area for the entire 68 years of the armistice. Korea isn't a success. It's still a nation officially at war, and the only thing preventing the war from going hot is US intervention, at the price of trillions total to the US taxpayer, meanwhile the people of North Korea, due to US sanctions lack basic food, medical services, and power. We're directly responsible for turning NK into one of the worst third world shitholes to live in on the planet. That's what you consider success?

Vietnam is a great example? The Vietcong won, the Socialist Republic of Vietnam rules to this day, SK dissenters were tossed into concentration camps, the story is as old as Marxism.

And most of the end of your post is sheer nonsense. Do sovereign nations have the right to self-govern? If so, then they do. The CCP has never in it's history acknowledge Taiwan as anything other than a province of China. It's well within their rights, as a sovereign nation, to assert their authority to take direct governing power into their own hands. If the UN wishes to formally acknowledge that the ROC is a legitimate government and that Taiwan is an officially sovereign state, then it needs to do so, and form a coalition to legally defend Taiwan from invasion. However, the UN has released no such resolutions. Whether from a legal standpoint, economic standpoint, or military standpoint, the US has no standing to involve itself in this conflict if we agree that a sovereign nation is indeed sovereign. If you do not acknowledge the right of sovereign nations their sovereignty, then you promote the idea that the US should actively attempt to become a world Authoritarian regime. AKA, we govern everyone, destroying all sovereignty, and putting us in the position of the new Authoritarian Empire.

You've not considered a single thing carefully or logically. You're merely pro-war because "reasons".

You're a liberatrian aren't you ?

This post was edited by duffman316 on Feb 22 2021 06:37pm

No. Nor is that a rebuttal of anything I've said on the subject. According to Pew Research, fewer than 40% of Americans see China as a Severe threat (I do), and of those, only half would support any form of military effort to address that threat.

We've spent the last 40 years investing into China, moving production to China, and strengthening China. The Clinton, Bush, and Obama years all saw incredible benefits provided to companies who outsource labor and production, with reduced import costs of goods produced there.

Trumps attempts to reduce the benefits of outsourced labor and production and impose stricter import duties was a near complete failure. Yet for those of us who've been advocating since the fall of the Soviet Union that China is the #1 global threat, the solution was always clear. Measured divestment. Recentralize all US and EU labor and production back in the US and EU, where it would not benefit China. As it stands right now, China doesn't have to "compete" with anyone, because they're the ones who make our stuff, and steal all the tech that allows our stuff to be made. All involving ourselves in what is mostly a minor internal conflict would do is have them nationalize all of our stuff and means of production in their nation, and cut off OUR ability to compete. The global economy has already passed the point where we can afford to take China less than deadly seriously. Everyone else has everything to lose, and China has everything to gain. They also have a nuclear arsenal of 320 warheads, and some of the most advanced mid-range missiles on the planet, and an army larger than any other 3 armies combined to field occupation forces. All of Europe is at risk, as is Australia, from direct attack from China if they do something to piss them off.

The basic reasoning behind everyone shouting at the US to do something is because the rest of the world is shitting their pants over open conflict with China. Yet any direct action the US takes would simply accelerate a war that would have disastrous consequences, which would itself cripple the US's ability to act. Measured divestment and recentralization of the means of production and the resurgence of populism are the tools to defeat China longterm. But the US and EU have spent 40 years building China up, and the only real attempt to reign them in was accused of being "xenophobic" and "racist". Yet the solution has not changed. Measured divestment, recentralization of democratic production and labor, and in the meantime, try not to go full gung ho on minor inconveniences like Taiwan. It won't turn out welll.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 22 2021 06:54pm

China is a big threat. Not because of their citizens but because of the people in power. Their whole country start working under 10 years old. Their country live to be the world producers of cheap goods. All that $ buy powers. All that money buy lands, store and way to make $ in every single country/cities you can think of.

They buying school nowadays.

The day they want a better geolocation for their people , they won't hesitate twice if they can win a war against the US. You'd be a fool to think otherwise. If the US could have taken Russia/China without all cons of doing such a move, they would.

Reasons we still were we at atm is because there's no country who feel like they can 100% take over against a superpower without going all nukes/biological.

This is why most countries resort to spying/digital warfare.

This post was edited by SunnyvaleTrailerPark on Feb 22 2021 08:09pm

The US was never interested in "taking" China. Nixon went to China to get them to open up specifically to set them up as a check against the USSR. He outlined the "provide the labor for and mimic the tech of" technique China has employed. They were not friendly with the Soviets, and were always a balance on Soviet expansion. The moment the USSR fell, our continued investment in China's economic expansion was ill-advised. They've utilized the very means they were provided to leverage the power of their ability to ignore climate issues and human rights concerns to mass produce the goods of the west in order to purchase power in the west.

They've taken over dominance in raw steel production, metal repurposing and recycling, microchip manufacturing, vehicle parts manufacturing, medical instrument and machinery manufacturing, and so very much more. They're involved in nearly all design elements of most high technology, and their own government has proven willing to nationalize any foreign company assets in China "for the people". Nixon's plan was good, but it's well past it's day. Our continued reliance on China puts everyone, including the EU and the US, at the mercy of China's whim.

Looking at things right now, it's easy to see Communism winning. It's a lot harder seeing communism losing.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 22 2021 08:17pm

This.

China trying to take Taiwan is the excuse we need to decimate their production.

Amendments to the Chinese national defense law, already effective for this new year, take powers from the State Council, which administers the civilian central government, and then hand them over to the Central Military Commission of the Communist Party. Included in the transferred powers is authority to mobilize the entire population of China.

Chilling...

Sleepy Joe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

they can't do anything else than war. its in their genes.

He said Chinese genocide was something we can get used to.

He might just be plotting, but this sounds like Neville Chamberlain here..