d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > What Do Pardians Think About Wiping Student Debts
Prev145678Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 38,671
Joined: Apr 1 2007
Gold: 8.21
Oct 10 2020 04:52pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Oct 10 2020 03:41pm)
Make it illegal for parents to underwrite the loans maybe


that part seems fine

my parents were always and will always be poor, they can't underwrite anything for me
Member
Posts: 41,270
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Gold: 1,788.71
Oct 10 2020 04:57pm
Quote (Ramy @ Oct 10 2020 04:31pm)
A couple hundred thousand. But we also make more.

But I'm not comparing you to other levels of debt. And you shouldnt either.

Point is your job pays fine. You have nothing to worry about


It is quite often more than that lol

50k a year many schools these days + cost of living + expensive ass 4th year with traveling all over the country sometimes for residency interviews

+3-7 years of residency where interest builds much faster than u can touch it with resident salary +/- a fellowship after that

+if you have undergrad debt that went untouched the entire duration of that that has been accruing interest

The average medschool debt is misleading because that average has a lot of people who have their school paid for. A fairly significant proportion of people come from wealth that go medschool route.

Not complaining, just saying

This post was edited by Bazi on Oct 10 2020 05:00pm
Member
Posts: 28,884
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 10,712.00
Oct 10 2020 05:08pm
Cancelling outright no, that’s not fair nor should the taxpayer be asked to pick up the tab.

We could come to a compromise though. I wouldn’t be against capping the cost of these loans or making them near free like a 2% rate
Member
Posts: 54,184
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Oct 10 2020 05:11pm
Quote (dro94 @ 10 Oct 2020 23:31)
I feel quite strongly that students should pay for their tertiary education for 2 reasons.

1) It wouldn't be fair not to charge them

If it's funded through general taxation then you have a morally backward system whereby the non-university educated workforce subsidise the tertiary education of those that will go on to enjoy a higher earnings potential than them and are likely to earn more in the long term.

2) Educational outcomes are better

University education funded publicly leads to poor educational outcomes due to a lack of funding. The allocation of funds to unviersities given by the government are almost universally lower than the funds a university can raise through charging students the prices they want.

There have been studies of this in the UK where England introduced student loans in 1997, replacing the previous model of a fully government funded policy, whereas Scotland kept their publicly funded universities. This large difference in policy between two neighbouring states has allowed us to study the long term effect pretty well. The result is clear - there has since been a lack of funding to Scottish universities in comparison to English ones which has led to their universities slipping down the national rankings.

Loan or Tax

I'd argue that it's better for student loans to function as a graduate tax where graduates will pay x% of their salary above a set minimum. This would only be paid when the graduate starts working and hits the income threshold, calculated on a monthly basis. If the loans aren't paid off after 25 years they're written off. The government would pay the loans to the university directly while tuition is ongoing and subsequently hold the student loan creditor on their balance sheet, with the graduate tax offsetting this in payments to the government.


I agree with all of this, BUT only if tuition rates are brought back to reality. American universities are overpriced as fuck, and having an entire young generation start off their work life as debt slaves is not a healthy or even sustainable status quo.

The most I paid at one of the best and most prestigious German universities was a tuition of €1000 per year, and even this type of tuition fee was later abolished in most of our federal states. By the time I graduted with my first degree, I had barely less in my bank account than when I started, and that was mostly due to several years of living costs in one of our most expensive cities. By the time I finished my post-grad degree, my net worth had already doubled compared to when I started my studies.

A few years ago, at a conference, I talked with some American colleagues about the student loan bubble. It was quite shocking to hear that between my net worth and their debt, I was about a quarter million ahead of them at the same age and point in our educational careers. Their degree is worth more because the university is more prestigious internationally, so they can expect to eventually achieve a higher salary than me, but it's still gonna take them at least 12 years, if not longer, to close the gap. And that's only if their career is going well. If it doesnt, for whatever reason, they're beyond fucked with this amount of debt.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Oct 10 2020 05:13pm
Member
Posts: 53,368
Joined: Sep 2 2004
Gold: 57.00
Oct 10 2020 05:18pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 10 Oct 2020 19:08)
Cancelling outright no, that’s not fair nor should the taxpayer be asked to pick up the tab.

We could come to a compromise though. I wouldn’t be against capping the cost of these loans or making them near free like a 2% rate

they should be 0.1% interest rate. its already 100% secured due to the racket i mean arrangement between the government and the academic institutions. basically no-risk debt should carry very, very low interest otherwise its usury.

0.1% is more than enough given whats the outstanding student loan balance? $1.8T or something?

This post was edited by excellence on Oct 10 2020 05:20pm
Member
Posts: 28,884
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 10,712.00
Oct 10 2020 05:26pm
Quote (excellence @ Oct 10 2020 07:18pm)
they should be 0.1% interest rate. its already 100% secured due to the racket i mean arrangement between the government and the academic institutions. basically no-risk debt should carry very, very low interest otherwise its usury.

0.1% is more than enough given whats the outstanding student loan balance? $1.8T or something?



Yeah compounding imo is what rapes most people. Unsubsidized loans are like what 7%? That’s egregious

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 10 2020 05:26pm
Member
Posts: 33,771
Joined: May 9 2009
Gold: 3.33
Oct 10 2020 05:30pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 11 2020 12:11am)
I agree with all of this, BUT only if tuition rates are brought back to reality. American universities are overpriced as fuck, and having an entire young generation start off their work life as debt slaves is not a healthy or even sustainable status quo.

The most I paid at one of the best and most prestigious German universities was a tuition of €1000 per year, and even this type of tuition fee was later abolished in most of our federal states. By the time I graduted with my first degree, I had barely less in my bank account than when I started, and that was mostly due to several years of living costs in one of our most expensive cities. By the time I finished my post-grad degree, my net worth had already doubled compared to when I started my studies.

A few years ago, at a conference, I talked with some American colleagues about the student loan bubble. It was quite shocking to hear that between my net worth and their debt, I was about a quarter million ahead of them at the same age and point in our educational careers. Their degree is worth more because the university is more prestigious internationally, so they can expect to eventually achieve a higher salary than me, but it's still gonna take them at least 12 years, if not longer, to close the gap. And that's only if their career is going well. If it doesnt, for whatever reason, they're beyond fucked with this amount of debt.


I don't know enough about American universities to comment on how overpriced they may be, however the price of tuition matters less if it's recovered through income tax instead of a loan with fixed repayments.

Member
Posts: 22,442
Joined: Mar 3 2007
Gold: 76.11
Oct 10 2020 06:21pm
Quote (Skinned @ Oct 10 2020 03:32pm)
Social work, personal counseling, marriage & family therapy are better than any of the other three. MSWs practice at the same level as PsyDs and it is a lot less expensive. The only difference is psychometrics which is niche.

A lot of my friends were going to become psychologists and were told to get a social work degree so you can work in 5 years instead of 10.


Oh, no doubt that majoring specifically in "Psychology" is far more limiting. I just got the sense that Duff may be speaking about this more generally.
Member
Posts: 22,442
Joined: Mar 3 2007
Gold: 76.11
Oct 10 2020 06:26pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Oct 10 2020 04:08pm)
Cancelling outright no, that’s not fair nor should the taxpayer be asked to pick up the tab.

We could come to a compromise though. I wouldn’t be against capping the cost of these loans or making them near free like a 2% rate


Oregon has/had a plan where you commit to paying 3% of your income (if you have income) for 25 years. You either end up paying the full loan off by that time or the remainder gets discharged.

Thoughts?
Member
Posts: 28,884
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 10,712.00
Oct 10 2020 06:41pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 10 2020 08:26pm)
Oregon has/had a plan where you commit to paying 3% of your income (if you have income) for 25 years. You either end up paying the full loan off by that time or the remainder gets discharged.

Thoughts?


Better than what we have in NY imo. Here you can get 4 years for free at a state school if you agree to stay in NYS afterwards for like 5 years. People need to have some of their own skin in the game.

3% is a little low in my opinion. It'd probably bump up it a few % points.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev145678Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll