Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 13 2020 03:25pm)

what does the embassy moving have to do with this UAE deal? what does trump have to do with the deal?

furthermore how much of middle eastern conflict does the UAE-Israeli conflict even amount to?

what factors make you "pretty sure"? all i can think of is Trump's vague statements that Kushner was working on it. if his administration played a key role im sure he'd brag specifically about what they did.

Quote (tagged4nothing @ Aug 14 2020 11:52am)

i won't bother reading the whole thread, but i'll answer the question up to this point.

Israel is not recognized as a state to much of the middle-east. their passports are not accepted in most middle-eastern countries. (to my understanding)
under Trump's administration, the USA has recognized the state of Israel. that does not mean the rest of the world did.
this move will help solidify their existence to the rest of the middle-east. as well as allow travel and community building between nations.

the peace deal isn't about ending war, it's about prosperity through peace. at least, that's how i currently see it.

Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 14 2020 12:56pm)

trump is the first potus to recognize israel as a state?

wat

Quote (tagged4nothing @ Aug 14 2020 12:07pm)

i mispoke trying to shorten things too much. Trump's administration has taken it steps further than recognition though.

unless you have reasons to convince me otherwise, the rest of my shortened statement holds well.

Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 14 2020 01:21pm)

yes but the muslim world was against moving the embassy, correct? so trump doing that not only isn't helpful towards UAE negotiations it would have been a negative.

so my question remains, what does moving the embassy have to do with Trump's role in UAE negotiations?

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When the people of Israel declared their independence in 1948, they were attacked by their Arab neighbors. Jordan took over East Jerusalem and the Old City (where most of the significant religious sites for Jews and Christians — as well as Muslims — can be found). While under the rule of Jordan, half of the synagogues in the Old City were demolished and tombstones were stolen from a Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

During the Six-Day War of 1967, Israeli forces reclaimed the Old City and reunified Jerusalem. Today, tourists of all faiths and backgrounds may access sites like the Western Wall and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. At the same time, Muslims continue to have primary access to the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque.

In 1980, a majority of the members of the Knesset passed a law that states: “Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel.” Soon after, the members of the U.N. Security Council passed a resolution condemning the Jerusalem law. The resolution was passed 14-0 with the United States abstaining.

State Department bureaucrats and global pundits continue to worry about affirming Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel.

This should not be such a difficult decision. The United States of America recognizes the State of Israel as a country. In fact, Israel is one of our staunchest allies in the world and, by far, the best in the region. The seat of their government is in Jerusalem and that government has adopted language affirming that Jerusalem is their national capital.

Failing to put the embassy in the capital would be like foreign countries establishing their embassy to the United States in New York instead of Washington, D.C. While New York is an important city and arguably the financial center of the world, it is not our nation’s capital. Countries that recognize America have their embassies in our nation’s capital.

Quote (tagged4nothing @ Aug 14 2020 01:17pm)

moving the embassy was a campaign promise as candidate. that was something people voted for when voting for Trump.
you may or may not disagree with that move, but bottom-line is that became "USA" policy when he was voted into office. (if i'm not mistaken, he wasn't the first president to promise this, but the only one to actually do it)
so against the "muslim world" or not, it was in our interest.

when you reference the "muslim world being against the move", you more-so mean "Palestinians" don't you? it seems you are implying the "middle-east" was against the move.

it's not very easy to broker peace deals when other countries are taking claim to your land, and your closest ally won't even recognize your capital.
moving the embassy and recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel was key to opening the doors to diplomacy.

here's a small read
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/13/why-moving-the-us-embassy-to-jerusalem-was-smart/


plain and simple, the move was needed if any future peace talks were to ensue. the only other option was continuous war with the Palestinians on the Gaza strip fighting for land they both take claim to.

Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 14 2020 02:37pm)

none of this has anything to do with my question.

UAE and Israel had peace talks previous to Trump taking office YEARS ago during Obama's administration. they fell apart due to israel's lack of desire to change settlement policies.

you reference right or wrong, im not even offering my opinion on that front. im asking a simple question, what specifically does the move of the embassy have to do with the peace deals with UAE?

are you suggesting that Israel is now willing to stop settlements, when previously they weren't, because the USA moved it's embassy? and that this is what caused the UAE negotiations to progress further this time?

otherwise a vague "peace can only happen if the USA move's its embassy" is about the worst ME take ive heard in this thread. some dots simply cannot be connected, this seems like a clear case of 2 ME policy moves by the Trump administration that simply aren't connected to each other by much of anything. "well they're both ME policy" is all there is. saying Trump's move of the embassy was causal to get a UAE deal would be foaming mouth desperation lol. both can be debated on their merits, but connecting them is tinfoil.

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During the 2016 US Presidential election, one of Trump's campaign promises was to move the US embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which he described as the "eternal capital of the Jewish people."[28] On June 1, 2017, Trump signed a waiver on the Jerusalem Embassy Act, delaying the move of the US embassy to Jerusalem for another six months, as had every president before him since 1995. The White House stated that this would help them negotiate a deal between Israel and Palestine, and that the promised move would come at a later time.[29]

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On December 6, 2017, US President Donald Trump announced the United States recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel[1] and ordered the planning of the relocation of the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

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Nov. 11, 2017
WASHINGTON — President Trump and his advisers have begun developing their own concrete blueprint to end the decades-old conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, a plan intended to go beyond previous frameworks offered by the American government in pursuit of what the president calls “the ultimate deal.”

After 10 months of educating themselves on the complexities of the world’s most intractable dispute, White House officials said, Mr. Trump’s team of relative newcomers to Middle East peacemaking has moved into a new phase of its venture in hopes of transforming what it has learned into tangible steps to end a stalemate that has frustrated even presidents with more experience in the region.

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Mr. Trump, who considers himself a dealmaker, decided to adopt the challenge when he took office in January, intrigued at the idea of succeeding where other presidents failed, and he assigned the effort to Jared Kushner, his son-in-law and senior adviser. Neither had any background with the issue and the effort was greeted with scorn, but the fact that the president entrusted it to a close relative was taken as a sign of seriousness in the region.

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“This is a long overdue step to advance the peace process,” Trump said. “Israel is a sovereign nation with the right like every other sovereign nation to determine its own capital.”

The move won’t happen overnight and involves a complicated set of logistics that could take several years to finalize, administration officials said. Still, Trump’s announcement makes the U.S. the first country to recognize the holy city as Israel’s capital.

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By announcing the move, Trump was “acknowledging the reality that Jerusalem has been Israel’s capital since 1949” and that Israelis and Palestinians must resolve their respective claims, including contested borders, among themselves, wrote David Makovsky and Dennis Ross for the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.

“You have the loss of a diplomatic channel both physically and verbally.”
The move will not, however, prevent a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem or change the fact that the two parties will need to negotiate the status of Jerusalem as part of resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Wittes said. Still, it does mark a shift in America’s relationship with the Palestinians, she said.

Quote (tagged4nothing @ Aug 14 2020 02:10pm)

some new settlement policy has appearingly been recently produced. what has or hasn't changed, i'm not aware.

i'll concede that peace deals "could" have formed from other situations and other administrations. but... this was all of the Trump administration's middle-east peace plan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/world/middleeast/trump-peace-israel-palestinians.html


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-you-should-know-about-trumps-jerusalem-announcement



moving the embassy to Jerusalem was the first step of many, it wasn't just a move made because promised though.
Trump delayed the moving specifically to get a better understanding of the region and issues surrounding it. because of the issues, Trump escalated his administrations goal for a peace-plan that he references as the "ultimate deal". moving the embassy was "part" of that.

i won't go so far to say the Trump administration had "everything" planned out ahead of time. but the "move" was all part of the plan for an end-goal.
edit: i'm not using bold to point to specifics you should read, but specific things to identify along the read.

Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 14 2020 03:46pm)

i think this supports my statement that the connection between the two is "they're both ME trump policy". they're unrelated policies other than the fact that they're both involving israel. i dont see the connection between the embassy movement and Palestine settlement negotiations in a causal context. again, if anything moving the embassy was negatively received by Palestinian leaders, so it would have been a strain on the negotiations if anything.

i have yet to see anything that says to me "ok now that we can name Jerusalem as our capital we can stop settlements". i find it far more likely that a growing threat of Iran and conservative islam in the region has reached a flashpoint where UAE is willing to set aside differences, including an embassy move they did not support, because Iran is simply a greater threat. that AND the fact that these two countries arent even sharing a border, so their conflict wasn't anything like Saudi-Iranian war. the other side of the argument presupposes both that Israel was only making settlements to secure their embassy move and that the relationship with UAE was very contentious pre-Trump. the latter is clearly false, UAE-Israel already worked together to ask Obama and Putin to take a hard line on Iran, and diplomats have been allowed in each respective nation under Obama for the first time ever.

as i said earlier to void, i credit Trump here for his lack of leverage used to make this happen and simply being at the table. what he did here in reality was promise both to be harder on Iran than obama was, which is equivalent to a fat guy saying "if u order pizza ill eat some", like duh, no shit.

Quote (tagged4nothing @ Aug 14 2020 03:04pm)

it was obviously a strain on Palestinian leaders. they were trying to claim East Jerusalem for their own future capital. with backing by the EU.
Israel couldn't even convince it's closest ally, USA, that Jerusalem was "their" capital, aka their land, until the Trump administration.
obviously that makes it harder for Palestine to "settle" that location.

"Jerusalem" is now recognized as Israel's. you cannot barter peace with "any" nation, if you cannot even convince them of your own capital city.