Life doesn't begin until first breath, and until they are a certain age they are property and not recognized as people. Even then, women are still largely property that can be traded.

I plan on trading my daughter for a goat as soon as I can, because I live in a biblical marriage.

That seems fair.

You also forgot to mention that it's cool with God to toss newborns onto rocks if you don't want them (yep, God is a late-term abortionist), and if someone happens to be your enemy it's also cool to literally cut the womb open and rip those fetuses out.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Jul 29 2020 12:06pm

I think it was Sartre that said he was fine with witch hunts because even though he didn't think superstitions were valid, women needed to be put in their place to maintain the culture.

When you look into the history of the witch hunts you lose the illusion that the average medieval person was some idiot who believed in the supernatural, but you get a much bleaker picture because it was clearly about putting women in their place with violence. And most witch hunts took place as we started to transition to capitalism, when women's role was made more narrow as simply reproduction of the labor force. Previously they might have been medicine women, midwives, spiritual advisers, doctors, etc. many more roles than mother and worker, but that all went away.

God the more I learn about history the more depressing it gets.

life begins at conception is a perfectly logical position, despite IVF exceptions. that has nothing to do with faulty application by dudes who want to control female reproduction that are illogically applying the rule and ignoring their own hypocrisy.

a big part of the reason im pro choice is because of compassion i have for women that traditional conservatives dont show, only posture at. and frankly i have no issue moral or otherwise with abortions of early first term fetuses.

When somebody says "life begins at conception" and wants to ban abortion that's a consistent position. But when they then say "but I make an exception for if the conception happens somewhere else" that stops being logical. A person doesn't stop being a person depending on if they are in a different location. It's like saying "Well, no true Scotsman was fertilized in a petri dish".

But... it's very possible somebody says "Life begins at conception, and IVF is murder, but I place a higher moral value on birth, so that outweighs the 99 deaths". That's fine, but in that case you've really devalued the life of those "at conception feetuses", to the point where abortion as a whole becomes a minor issue due to it only being 1/99th as objectionable as an IVF procedure that kills 99 fetuses. Unless of course, that one birth has a huge moral weight. But in that case it's morally imperative to create more births because they have a huge moral weight.

And now you're in wacky land. There's no consistent position for "life begins at conception" with IVF. You always get to silly conclusions, which means it's a silly position to hold.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jul 29 2020 12:20pm

so the unicorn here is someone who gets IVF then wants an abortion? i mean, wat?

yeah, what? I have no idea what you mean.

lol you're dense. Conception without self-viability is nonsensical. You keep refusing to acknowledge the latter and think massive advances in science for people which are the exception somehow invalidate the rule.

Joke of an argument really.

You've already admitted you don't believe in life beginning at conception, so I don't see what your contention is.

Conception in the natural biological environment =/= artificial conception that needs current scientific advancements to keep it alive.

Interfering with the first to end the conception is wrong. Having the latter fail because the environment is not as friendly as an uterine wall, where it should be happening is a natural consequence.

Logical comparisons hinge on equivalences which the two are not making your 'logic' bunk.

It's like comparing putting the pillow over someones head when they are in the hospital unconscious and will most likely survive a car accident and letting a person die naturally because they're a vegetable but have a tiny chance of recovering due to scientific discovery.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Jul 29 2020 12:48pm