Am meds haven’t kicked in yet?

far sicker but with a death count the fraction of them? even controlled for population american conservatives are far better at keeping their "undesirables" alive. even idiots like Ghot who justify japanese internment camps are shouted down by their own side lol.

not going to happen corporations like their profit margins in China way too much.
Better get your R friends to work for .75 an hour

but it's a catch 22, because to do the type of quick economic move against them that actually causes manufacturing to move is so strict that it wont be done. we can hit their bottom line, but they'll just neglect worker safety and lower pay as well as automating to cover up the loss in profits. so we're really just putting Chinese people out of work and causing them to work in less safe environments. the dream of hitting china so hard that manufacturing just ups and moves is silly from a math stand point, but also ignores contracts many US firms have with Chinese manufacturers.

economic war with China is a nice idea, but it's not more feasible than "well if everyone launched their nukes into space we could have peace".

I disagree. It's feasible and it's already happening just not on a massive scale yet because like you said there's contractual obligations & it takes money to build factories, ports, etc. You can't say a bunch of countries encouraging their businesses to move factories out of China is nothing. If you are a business with huge production in China right now you're thinking long and hard if you should diversify that production to more neutral places like Vietnam & other SE Asian nations. I guarantee you it's a conversation many execs and macro business strategy heads are having right now.

The less reliant the world is on China for production, the more the world can use the stick on them, currently we can't smash them over the head yet because there's no alternatives. Remember Greenland purchase being floated? Remember how everyone cried of how terrible of an idea it is even though the primary reason for it is because Greenland has a fuck ton of rare earths which are crucial in so many things we need yet like 90% of them come from China?

As far as Chinese workers goes, honestly that's not my concern and i doubt the US gov't cares enough to not step on China too hard because they care about those people. China having a huge recession, hurting hundreds of millions there, would actually benefit US hegemony in a sick kind of way because it would cause social unrest and give the commies heartache about potential uprisings.

you theory has one issue, there's nothing stopping chinese firms from building the new factories in vietnam etc once the sanctions necessitate it. AND you're underestimating how large those sanctions would need to be imo, its not just tariff and wait for a few years, because they can control the back end and manipulate employment costs or use cheaper materials. as soon as we move to vietnam chinese money floods in and it all leads back to the state in massive amounts. this is the fundamental problem with a free market coming up against a state run economy, all roads lead back to the govt even if you start them in vietnam. we also dont have any assurance that we're not trading a boogeyman for another, what protections will Vietnam offer for USA ip? none, if they did theyd be just as out of business as china. thinking moving manufacturing out of china weakens china is exactly wrong, it will give them a larger stake in the economies of their neighbors. the citizens of the USA dont own it, the special interests do. we're talking about a plan that makes china THE special interest in vietnam, singapore, etc. and before u say the USA will beat them to the punch, no they wont. US manufacturers have little to no interest in creating asian firms, its bad business and bad PR waiting to happen.

I'm talking about foreign companies which have factories in China or are contracting those firms.

Even if Chinese firms start building elsewhere it would hurt China on the aggregate because it would be Vietnamese people with jobs and Vietnam's gov't collecting taxes from production. Sure, maybe they circumvent tariffs that way but at a steep cost for China.

You have a pretty inverted understanding here. Moving things out of China= less leverage for China not more. It's hard to fuck with your neighbors militarily when they have billions of your production in their country. These companies will pressure the commies at home to settle down and not be too agro because no one wants to fuck with the hand that feeds them. Chinese oligarchs aren't going to let some commie 'we want world dominion' bureaucrats put their money at risk.

And ultimately it's not about PR or short term bads here. China is an issue, like that's being crystallized with the islands, with their interference in places like Australia, with their minority camps, with their border dispute with India, with their parasitic Africa 'help'.

Giving them the proverbial Czechoslovakia won't work. I'm generally against war, interventions & escalations but the China threat is a serious one. This isn't goat fuckers in Afghanistan or Syria, this is something that is on par with the USSR.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Jul 21 2020 09:51am

which foreign companies are those that are not owned by chinese firms? american companies contract with chinese firms, ever since sweat shops became bad PR in the 80s and 90s american firms divested from ownership to reduce fault when scandals broke. that's the bad PR i was referencing.

i dont have a bad understanding at all, currently the chinese govt has leverage domestically through their firms, moving a chines company to vietnam gives the chinese govt a modicum of less domestic leverage but more foreign leverage. then those govts get more in the chinese pocket, with the promise of taxation on the manufacturing, and are more likely to accept china's influence. war is economical, u have that right, but you're letting the enemy take territory because u have some idea you can beat them to it, u can't.

but american companies dont have stake at a majority level in many chinese firms, so let's start there. its the crucial point here.

It's crucial in so far that thinking not having ownership means you can't dictate what they do, which is false. Large clients that account for double digit % revenue have extreme power over the supplier. That's why most of Apple's suppliers jump when Apple tells them to jump. If the US dropped the ban hammer on Chinese products obviously it would fuck the American consumer but it would also really curb stomp all of those Chinese companies, hurting China severely.

I mean i don't entirely disagree with your point that the company moving to another place gives that company/nation some leverage over the host nation but it simultaneously yields some of that leverage. It's that case pretty much everywhere. Like if our tech giants want to operate in Europe they have to adhere to that unions/countries laws, regulations, safety standards, etc. Chinese companies moving to other places outside of China would mean some of the power/influence would be going to that host nation.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Jul 21 2020 11:46am

nah inky just forgot this isnt the dear diary section