Quote (Kayeto @ Jun 17 2020 09:18pm)

Here's the proof: Incidents of "compliance with police resulting in death" became flashpoints which attracted media attention and public outrage. The buildup of years of incidents led to unrest and eventually riots that destroyed a city. Therefore, we can reach the conclusion that it is a problem.

There are incidents all around the country whose names never even make the local paper (names I will never know), but those experiences have a personal impact on the black people who felt victimized by them. When they see Amadou Diallo's killers found 'not guilty' (despite not offering any defense or justification for the shooting), that causes anger. The anger of the people is a real factor that exists and has to be dealt with.

Trying to handwave it away with "it's not a problem" will not work. It obviously is a problem, you can't deny that the building is burning. If the people say that the system of government doesn't reflect the will of the people then, by definition, the people are correct that it is a problem. Those are the rules of the system.

Quote (Plaguefear @ Jun 17 2020 08:44pm)

I watched a video yesterday of a black man pulled over for speeding, asked for his licence, reaches for it and the cop pulls his gun holds it on him and starts screaming at him, when the man asks why a gun is being pointed at him the cop calls for backup and ignores him.

Quote (EndlessSky @ Jun 17 2020 09:29pm)

Yea, because the media lies you clueless dolt. 20 people died yesterday in Detroit by other fucking blacks. Do you fucking care? Did anyone fucking riot? Does the media paint a narrative that blacks murder blacks?

Stop spreading your lies. Do the world a favor and shut the fuck up about things you don't understand. You're actually getting people killed.

Quote (HWNC @ Jun 17 2020 08:35pm)

ever heard of the eggshell skull rule? you can’t play what if’s, there’s no guarantee the man would have died if not murdered by chauvin. floyd’s death took 8 minutes and 46 seconds to happen even in poor health and “while drugged”. safe to say he was probably fine otherwise. it’s purely chauvin’s fault.

Quote (ReturnFormer @ Jun 17 2020 09:43pm)

Reality may be very very different. And in this case, it is.

Quote (EndlessSky @ Jun 17 2020 07:39pm)

No it isn't.

Prove it you math-incapable fucker.

Quote (Kayeto @ Jun 17 2020 08:53pm)

The reality is that people who are members of the law enforcement team are treated very differently when they do something wrong than civilians are treated. That's a problem.

Quote (ReturnFormer @ Jun 18 2020 11:43am)

And the germans held pogroms against the Jews and others and killed them in concentration camps because they thought that they were inferior and were controlling all the banks and running the world etc. By your logic "well, they went to all that trouble, they must be right! "

People protesting and rioting etc is not a proof that the reason for the protests is legitimate, only that they think it is. Reality may be very very different. And in this case, it is.




I would agree that in that instance the cop overreacted and is probably racist and should be fired. But one bad cop doesn't mean that all cops are bad or racist. That's just an absurd claim.

Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 18 2020 11:50am)

well for starters, the eggshell skull rule is applicable to tort/civil law, not to criminal murder charges. Either a murder possesses the elements of the crime, or it doesn't. They have to show direct, substantial, proximate non-trivial causation. They have to establish proof beyond the 'but for' possibility, not the lesser threshold of claiming 'theres no guarantee it could have happened otherwise'. They must show he wouldn't die in the same time/way but for the direct causation of the accused.
And the evidence doesn't say he was probably fine otherwise. There's a substantial evidence that he died of a heart attack caused by chronic heart disease and drug overdose, and substantial evidence refuting that any serious trauma contributed to his death. And the very important exonerating detail that Floyd was already exhibiting signs of a heart attack before being restrained. Because that alone should be enough to say that even without being restrained, he was very likely about to die of a heart attack.

Quote (GLYC123 @ Jun 17 2020 10:12pm)

I wouldn't say that's always entirely accurate.

Quote (Plaguefear @ Jun 17 2020 09:14pm)

Except there was TRAINED MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS in that crowd being held back from assisting by the police..
You know the odds of dying from a heart attack if someone is right there and able to assist?
EXTREMELY low.

Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 18 2020 12:39pm)

besides the obvious issues with letting completely random hostile members of the public interfere in an arrest without any idea if they're qualified or not-
what do you think they were going to do to save his life with no equipment?
It wasn't like someone was trying to run up with an AED. The odds of rescuing someone from a fatal heart attack brought on by chronic heart disease with extreme comorbidity factors using just your bare hands is about... "no"
they could give him CPR and chest compressions but its extremely unlikely to have made a difference