It's kind of funny you know, but poor people pay for social security overwhelmingly. They say that poor people don't pay taxes, but that's just not true, is it?

When you file for your returns, you only receive returns on "taxes" not on FICA/SSI. Yet if you're in that low of a bracket, SSI/FICA are the majority of the taxes you're paying. So it's a non-refundable tax. The problem is that it has a hard cap. So the intel worker who, after 30 years of work, is making $130,000/year is paying exactly the same in SSI as Bill Gates or Warren Buffet.

So what you effectively have is a system that is funded by the lower and working class people, yet is advertised as "helping them". But how is it helping? By taking their money for 50 years, promising to "pay off" when they can barely afford a healthy diet (if they can) right now today?

If SSI was intended to "help poor people" it'd be the same flat tax rate with no hard cap, and no way for the wealthy to get out of it. But it's not there to help people. It's just another way of taxing them.

Face it, if your total "investment" into SSI was put into improving your own life NOW, you'd be much more likely to SURVIVE to the great old age of 65. Also, it's not like SSI pays out enough to live on anyhow. So it's no guarantee of retirement at all. Same with medicare.

Edit: SSI sounds great, so does Medicare, on paper. But due to the hard caps, you have 3 classes of people. Lower class ($50k/year or less) who desperately need not to be paying it, it destroys their health and ability to afford a home TODAY, and will likely negatively impact their chance of surviving until 65 to draw from it, middle class ($75K-$130K) who will bitch about it, but can take the loss from their paychecks without living paycheck to paycheck. Nice and cozy extra source of income when they retire. Then the Upper class, who don't care, it's drops in a bucket. They won't likely draw from it, they don't care about the minor tax, and frankly, they're annoyed that the plebs throw a shit fit over it so often. Also, SSI/FICA IS me funding somebody else. SSDI does not require that a disabled person ever actually have worked for a draw. So people who've never paid in can benefit. Likewise, medicaid/medicare provides healthcare for children and illegals. So yeah, not investing in myself, even assuming I DO survive to 65.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Apr 1 2020 09:25pm

SSI is intended to help all people when they get too old or infirm, to continue working. Granted, if you pull $130k a year you will probably have other retirement methods that you can make use of. But even people making tons of money can still get sick or infirm and NEED that SSI or SSDI.

This may come as a shock to you, but people live far past 65 these days. Let's say you're making $2500 a week.. the 7.65% (SSI and Medicare) coming out of your check each week is not gonna change your current situation very much if at all.
At $2500/week before taxes, that's only $191 per week going to FICA, and with the employer part added in... it's almost $400 a week towards YOUR over 65 retirement.

Many young folk think, damn, that's a lot of money. They also think damn, what would I need that for after I'm 65. Well, when yoiu fall down and you under forty say, you cuss and get back up. When you fall down after 65 you need a hip replacement or similar. At about 50 your digestive system starts to get wonky, if your lucky. If your not, you get things like colon cancer, or things like cirrhosis of the liver. At 60 your knees start falling apart.
Then there's things like glaucoma, cataracts, macular degeneration, just to name a few.

Just for an FYI, my glasses at 60 years old run about $1000 a pair. And other than near-sightedness, my eyes are fine.

I had a mild cholesterol type heart attack in Oct 2018. Just a tiny blocked artery. The hospital bill for 24 hours was $53,000, and I don't even want to know how much they 8 medications I now have to take... cost.


Trust me on this...when you get past 65, you definitely don't have the same body you did... before that age. And that all has to be payed for... somehow.
These days if you want to assure yourself that you'll NEVER need SSI or SSDI, you best be making about $300k a year, minimum. ^^



/e Hell, look at someone like Pelosi. She probably pays like... $2-3 million a year just to stay alive. Or how about Ruth Bader Ginsburg. I too thought I would never live this long. I was fucking....wrong!






/ee I will be 64 this November.









This post was edited by Ghot on Apr 1 2020 09:43pm

There are several issues with what you're saying here.

First off, it doesn't address at all that people can draw on SSDI and Medicare who have never paid into it. Sure, healthcare for kids is great, but face it, kids (and illegals) not paying into the system but benefitting from it sort of REQUIRES that the wealthy pay their flat tax. Same with the disabled. If you've never paid in, you deserve nothing from it.

Second off, it doesn't address the $128,000 hard cap. When no income beyond "middle class" rates is being taken from, those who SHOULD be funding the "freebies" of kids and illegals and the disabled are NOT.

Third off, while average life expectancy has gone up to like 79 years or something, among the poor (those making $50k or less) it drops to 60, and those with the $150K+ it goes up into the low 90's. The odds state that those who "need" SSI the most will never live long enough to benefit off it. They're just paying for illegals and other people's kids and disabled people.

Fourth off, medicare does not pay anywhere near enough to cover health issues. The medicare you get by default, a secondary (paid version) AND personal health insurance is what is used by most of the "rich" people who can afford such things.

Now, let's do the math: Say you make $15/hour and work 40 hours a week. That's $600/week, roughly $2500 per MONTH, not per week. And that is NOT your net, that's your gross. At that point, once you consider things like taxes, FICA itself, insurance, transportation, rent, etc. trust me, you won't be "brushing off" that "only" $191/month. In fact, that $191/month extra might be the difference between you eating ramen and drinking tang and being able to afford actual food.

1. I'm totally against illegal aliens getting ANY benefits, or anything else for that matter.
2. As for children, I would imagine that they must be a dependent of someone who HAS paid into the system.
3. The street I live on is cluttered with 80+ year old folks...from all walks of life. Up until recently we had a 93 yr old living two doors up.
4. Medicare pays all but about 20%, and there are other agencies that will help with that 20%.
5. FICA is a percentage, not a flat rate. At $600 a week, they only take $45.90. (just multiply w/e your gross is by .0765)



FICA has been around for 85 years now....and just about everyone... is happy with it. When I was 25 now...I was like wtf??? But I researched it, and decided I could deal with it. And so did just about everyone else in the US.

1. We agree.
2. Nope. There's CHIP and a federal program that was passed back in the... Late 70's? Early 80's? I forget. Both utilize FICA funds, and just as with illegals in emergency rooms, any child will be covered.
3. Given you're referring to making $2500/week, I suspect you're in a much higher income area than you're letting on to. Probably own your own home, as do they, and haven't had to worry about paycheck to paycheck living. You're a tad out of touch.
4. Oh? Because every retired person I speak to says different. And they say it at great length.
5. It's NOT a percentage. IF it were a percentage then a person who grosses $1 billion/year would be paying in $76.5 million. That is NOT the case. They are actually paying in $9792, the same as the $130k/year intel worker. Once you hit the hard cap, it's a flat rate.

It's a ponzi scheme, there's no doubt. A tax on those who can't hardly afford to eat, to pay for those fortunate enough to not really need it. You say "just about everyone is happy with it" but the reality is if you actually spoke to people in the "less than $50k/year" bracket, ESPECIALLY those who're at or around that $30k/year bracket, everyone HATES it. When 600 sq ft apartment costs you $1000/month in a slum, you're grossing $2500/month, every "think about tomorrow" cost is irrelevant. If you can't afford healthy meals, tomorrow will never arrive.

5. It IS a percentage. FICA is 7.65% of your gross. Period.


As for the millionaires. They still only get the same amount you will for SSI or SSDI.

Were you not listening? It's CAPPED. Thus it is NOT a percentage. You can effectively think about it as "$10,000/year OR 7.65% of your income, whichever is lower."

And the point is that every person who benefits from FICA without paying into it (disabled, illegals, children) are insuring that your so-called "investment" is not an investment in yourself, it's an investment into THEM. Who cares what the millionaires draw? Why should I be paying for the ER visits of illegals when I don't make fuckall? Why should I be paying for the healthcare of other people's kids when I can not afford the time OR cost of going to a doctor myself, even WITH insurance?

You just don't get it. As I said, you're out of touch. You're not and weren't poor, you don't understand rent prices, and you have no idea how much difference a couple hundred more or less per month can truly make for those who ARE poor.

Forget living to 65 and drawing SSI. I'd settle for 50 with decent meals. Housing costs are anywhere from 2.5x to 10x what they were 20 years ago, health insurance costs (even employer-based) have gone up a good 5x, renters and vehicle insurance are also a good 5x, yet minimum wage isn't even double. Yet you're going to tell the over 50% of the working population, who makes $30k or less, how great SSI is? You're clueless.

You're not getting it bro. I guess I've failed. :/

You've failed to understand. To the poorest segment of the population, who also make up over half the workers in the nation, life expectancy is UNDER 65. They will NEVER benefit from FICA. Further, 50K/year or less workers make up 65% of the total FICA income. This is BECAUSE of that hard cap. So it's the poor paying for the middle class who're fortunate enough to fall into the life expectancy zone of "will not die before 65". The millionaires and billionaires don't fund the illegals or disabled or children. The POOR people do. And the only true beneficiaries who are benefiting from their "investment" are folks like yourself who don't even understand what "poor" means, and believe that a few hundred more or less per month makes no difference.

It's like talking to a wall.

Dude the only one that "loses" in this debate... is you, actually. ^^