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Aug 11 2019 08:30pm
Yes but no centralized database.
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Aug 11 2019 08:37pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Aug 11 2019 09:30pm)
I think the question is more so that we have the 2nd Amendment which makes this altogether different than auto registration. Nowhere in our law does a citizen have a right to car ownership and to drive. It's very much a privilege.


"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

How do you define 'well regulated militia'? Does 'well regulated' mean no regulation at all? Is some level of regulation mutually exclusive with 'well regulated' ?

This post was edited by Kayeto on Aug 11 2019 08:37pm
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Aug 11 2019 08:49pm
Quote (Kayeto @ Aug 11 2019 07:37pm)
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

How do you define 'well regulated militia'? Does 'well regulated' mean no regulation at all? Is some level of regulation mutually exclusive with 'well regulated' ?


It doesn't mean no regulation, of course. I'm just saying that comparing it to automobile registration is questionable because driving is a privilege.
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Aug 11 2019 09:03pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Aug 11 2019 10:49pm)
It doesn't mean no regulation, of course. I'm just saying that comparing it to automobile registration is questionable because driving is a privilege.


ok, instead of just saying "it's questionable", let's actually engage in the exercise of questioning it.

If the amount of regulation around automobiles (test, license, registration) were applied to firearms, would that be a violation of the 2nd amendment?

This post was edited by Kayeto on Aug 11 2019 09:03pm
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Aug 11 2019 09:13pm
Quote (Kayeto @ Aug 11 2019 08:03pm)
ok, instead of just saying "it's questionable", let's actually engage in the exercise of questioning it.

If the amount of regulation around automobiles (test, license, registration) were applied to firearms, would that be a violation of the 2nd amendment?


It seems a bit antithetical that the institution (government) would have the sole power to create and oversee license of the very thing (guns), that in theory, is supposed to protect the citizenry from the government if/when needed.
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Aug 11 2019 09:18pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Aug 11 2019 11:13pm)
It seems a bit antithetical that the institution (government) would have the sole power to create and oversee license of the very thing (guns), that in theory, is supposed to protect the citizenry from the government if/when needed.


So which body would you anoint in order to perform the 'regulation' that is mentioned in the 2nd amendment?

A video I linked here last week featured a historian suggesting that insurance companies might be appropriate for that task. They operate on the free market and already have the means to assess risk
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Aug 11 2019 10:35pm
Quote (Kayeto @ Aug 11 2019 09:37pm)
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

How do you define 'well regulated militia'? Does 'well regulated' mean no regulation at all? Is some level of regulation mutually exclusive with 'well regulated' ?


"Well regulated" has nothing to do with the promulgation of regulations. "Well regulated" in the context of the 2nd amendment has everything to do with people being proficient with their firearms and trained in their use.
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Aug 11 2019 10:46pm
Quote (Santara @ 12 Aug 2019 06:35)
"Well regulated" has nothing to do with the promulgation of regulations. "Well regulated" in the context of the 2nd amendment has everything to do with people being proficient with their firearms and trained in their use.


you know that what you personally accept as THE correct reading / interpretation of the second is just one of many (obviously the one that fits your own narrative), right?
realistically it's rather unlikely that the framers in the 18th century forsaw and intended america's current gun obsession and its massive drawbacks.
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Aug 11 2019 10:54pm
Quote (Santara @ Aug 12 2019 12:35am)
"Well regulated" has nothing to do with the promulgation of regulations. "Well regulated" in the context of the 2nd amendment has everything to do with people being proficient with their firearms and trained in their use.


ok, so how would we ensure that citizens are proficient with their firearms and trained in their use? what system would we implement to adhere to that interpretation of the 2nd amendment?

Would a system of training and licensing (similar to the one we use for automobiles) not be in line with such a system?
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Aug 11 2019 10:55pm
Quote (fender @ Aug 11 2019 11:46pm)
you know that what you personally accept as THE correct reading / interpretation of the second is just one of many (obviously the one that fits your own narrative), right?
realistically it's rather unlikely that the framers in the 18th century forsaw and intended america's current gun obsession and its massive drawbacks.


No, people who promote the notion that "well regulated" pertains to the promulgation of regulations are entirely ignorant. It's honestly a completely retarded premise. Imagine had they written "the militia, which should be well supervised by the legislatures of the states wherein they reside, being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
What the framers foresaw was a standing army and the attendant dangers of having one. And we're now living with some of the dangers of our standing army. We've waged wars on peoples all over the globe pushing monetary imperialism onto them.
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