Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 5 2018 05:57pm)

So lets leave out the 19% vat since its applied to domestic cars as well, that still leaves 10% tax compared to the 2.5% in the US. I absolutely love it how hypocritical you guys are mocking Trump for threatening reciprocal tariffs and bringing up how all economists say this and that...but you have nothing to say about your own protectionist policies? 7.5% is a huge disadvantage for American made cars. And your second and third points are absolutely correct but that doesn't take away from the point that you guys have protectionist policy in this industry and have the audacity to be critical of even a threat of leveling the field. The original point i was making was addressing Germany and Japan, both of these countries have a huge market in the US meanwhile these same countries have higher tariffs on our cars. BMW's Mercedes, VW are all beloved brands in the US that you see quite often, saying the Japanese cars are more of a threat doesn't change the fact that the Germans are also treating us unfairly.

As i'v said before i want lower tariffs, lower barriers to trade, but reciprocal tariffs are necessary to apply pressure on countries like Japan and Germany that apparently don't care about what all of the economists agree on and are doing quite fine with their protectionism.

Quote (balrog66 @ Mar 5 2018 11:12am)

TTIP was the EU's measure to get rid of customs duties, but they scrapped it when Trump got elected. Oh, and note that tariffs are uneven the other way around too. 14% vs 1.7% for train carriages. Honestly, it's all a power projection game. In any trade deal, both sides want to get out ahead. Win-win situations exist, but one of them is going to win more than the other.

Add to this that EU public bids are open to US companies, but US public bids do not allow EU companies. So BMW can't offer to make a fleet of cop cars. Which is another unfairness on the side of the US. In the end, you can keep looking for these imbalances all over, but I honestly believe that Trump will harm the US more with increasing tariffs, as I don't see it likely that countries are going to budge.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 5 2018 06:26pm)

TTIP got scrapped not because of Trump but because it was crony capitalism. Massive trade pacts shouldn't be decided by corporations, behind closed doors, that even gov't officials had no idea what was being signed into law. Such deals need to be transparent, for scrutiny, not decided behind closed doors by robber barons.

You can't seriously compare the car markets to train carriages, the former is probably a 10,000 fold bigger in impact and scope than the latter. The only metric i need to see and gather that something is not right is our massive trade deficits year after year with pretty much all of our trading partners.

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Asked what Trump could do to make sure German customers bought more American cars, Gabriel said: “Build better cars.”

Quote (balrog66 @ Mar 5 2018 11:42am)

TTIP negotiations were stopped after Trump got elected. The negotiations were put on hold in october 2016, and frozen after the election of Trump. There were months of protest because of the corporate court measures etc, but Trump's election certainly seems to have been the deciding factor.

And yeah, the market for train carriages is likely smaller than cars. But I'd say the public bid market is pretty huge. Infrastructure, vehicle fleets, utility networks. And do note that many over here do not buy US cars, not just because they're 10% more expensive, but because over here they have the stereotype of being plasticky, bad finishing and incredibly soft suspension.



I know that this stereotype is getting kind of old and it doesn't really hold up that much anymore (haven't had any problems with the Fords I've driven, Volkswagen however...), but the simple truth is that the large market share of US manufactured vehicles just is not fit for EU markets. The only places I've been in Europe where i saw pickups driving semi-regularly was Norway and Sweden in the middle of winter.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 5 2018 06:56pm)

The trade deals were dead way before his election. You can go as far back as when Wikileaks leaked some of the details and there was a huge uproar from both the left and right about some of the details. Even Hillary, the globalist princess, distanced herself from the trade deals and eventually said she wouldn't support them during the primaries.

Like i said i don't disagree that US cars aren't a very good fit for the European markets. I agree with you that even without the 10% in taxes most euros would opt for the smaller engine European brands. I drive a Honda Civic that has a 4 cylinder 1.7 liter engine and that's like one of the smallest engines here, meanwhile my cousin in eastern Europe is driving a 1.4 liter engine car and most there choose small engine cars. I just think you guys should let the Americans bring their cars in for cheaper if there is market demand for them. If both the EU and US had identical tariffs or no tariffs at all i think us consumers would win out. I mean we already see how US manufacturers are making models to fit the Euro demand like the 1.4 liter Ford focus.

Quote (ofthevoid @ 5 Mar 2018 14:59)

>2.5% tax on euro cars coming to US
>10% tax+19% vat on American cars going to EU

Yes it’s about time we do something about this

Quote (fender @ 4 Mar 2018 14:12)

hmmm, so it's 2.5% vs. 29%, huh? yeah, that is pretty bad indeed...
just one little problem: your claim is yet again complete and utter BS. seriously, your ignorance (or dishonesty) is truly mindblowing:

- first of all, the VAT has literally NOTHING to do with tariffs - we pay that for EU made cars as well.
- secondly, while the US base tariff for EU cars is indeed just 2.5%, that's not the whole story - for trucks (the most popular cars in the US) and vans for example it's a staggering 25%!

your whole "totally imbalanced" talking point is simply WRONG. like i mentioned in the other thread, about 50% of the trade already IS completely tariff free, with the rest having varying tariffs, in some cases EU's are higher, in others america's.


ok, now you can go back to calling me names and making moronic posts about how america is the poor helpless victim of unfair and evil trade deals - facts and arguments clearly aren't your thing...

Quote (fender @ Mar 5 2018 01:25pm)

funny you still make those claims given i already debunked them:

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The United States accounts for about 15 percent of worldwide Mercedes-Benz and BMW brand sales, while it accounts for 5 percent of VW brand sales and 12 percent of Audi sales.

The United States had a $22.3 billion automotive vehicle and parts trade deficit with Germany in 2017 and a $7 billion deficit with the United Kingdom, according to U.S. government data.

Quote (thesnipa @ Mar 5 2018 01:40pm)

I wish I was dumb enough to simplify trade to "imbalanced bad, balanced good."

Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 5 2018 04:48pm)

Consistently running trade deficits is categorically bad. It doesn't take a genius economist to figure that out. It's actually a pretty basic macroeconomic problem.

GDP=C+G+I+NetX

when your NetX is a negative year after year, and growing larger, it's not a good thing.