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Poll > Which Political System Would You Rather Support?
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May 3 2013 07:25pm
Quote (Indent @ 4 May 2013 01:11)
Atheism means being a non-believer, but we all know that all kinds of things are associated with the word.
Calling somebody an atheist communicates nothing more than non-believer, but calling somebody a Creationist has all kinds of content behind it.


atheism implies the conscientious believe that there is no god
non-believer could be atheist, agnostic or someone who is unaware of the concept of a god
and non-believer is often used by religious people to denounce those who do not share their believe
and i don't see 'creationist' to have that much content behind it
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May 3 2013 07:36pm
Quote (Lifebane99 @ May 3 2013 08:35pm)
Because a christian farmer is a great example of the majority of people living in a sharia democracy?
Why do i even bother with you?
Malasia is a sharia democracy by the way and there a lot of people living happy lives there.


It demonstartes the severe problems. In Northern Nigeria, the majority is Muslim but there is a sizable minority that are not. Why should they have to live under Sharia? They can't move either. Malaysia has a heavily watered down form of Sharia either. The highest courts are secular, and based on the English model. They have civil courts (Not criminal courts) based on Sharia, but non-Muslims aren't subject to them (Malaysia has a sizable non-Muslim population, which is part of the reason Singapore left the Malaysian Federation).
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May 3 2013 07:38pm
Quote (Caedus @ May 4 2013 11:36am)
It demonstartes the severe problems. In Northern Nigeria, the majority is Muslim but there is a sizable minority that are not. Why should they have to live under Sharia? They can't move either. Malaysia has a heavily watered down form of Sharia either. The highest courts are secular, and based on the English model. They have civil courts (Not criminal courts) based on Sharia, but non-Muslims aren't subject to them (Malaysia has a sizable non-Muslim population, which is part of the reason Singapore left the Malaysian Federation).


But if the majority of a nation were muslims they would not see sharia as a problem.
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May 3 2013 07:42pm
Quote (thundercock @ May 2 2013 11:31pm)
Yea, not being able to speak your mind is better. Not being able to spend money how you want to is obviously superior to being in a society with big bad scary Muslims.  :rolleyes:


ummm secular authoritarian dictatorship does not NECESSARILY imply either of those things.

A democratic Islamic state has all of the ingredients of utter failure and despotism from the get-go.

This post was edited by RUSSiABANK on May 3 2013 07:42pm
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May 3 2013 07:48pm
Quote (Lifebane99 @ May 3 2013 09:38pm)
But if the majority of a nation were muslims they would not see sharia as a problem.


If a majority of people voted to oppress the minority, would that be OK? Because that is what happens in countries where Sharia dominates both the legal system. The southern areas of Nigeria are much better places to live. India is a much better place to live than Pakistan. Difference is one place does not have Sharia, and the other does.

And many Muslims would agree, and it's not even a novel idea that emerged with how nice western countries are. Back in the middle ages, Muslim nobles, diplomats and merchants who were quite religious expressed dismay that Muslim subjects would rather live under Spanish (In Iberia), Norman (In Sicily) or Crusader (In the Levant) lords than Muslim lords who enforced Sharia law. The grass is greener on the other side, Muslims who are indoctrinated by clerics or have never experienced the alternative don't understand this.
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May 3 2013 07:48pm
Right –

Richard Dawkins happens to be a well-known "atheist" and firmly believes there is no God, much like he does not believe in the Easter Bunny, but he has stated that there is never enough reason to believe everything is absolute. He has created a belief scale from 1 to 7, and places deities, the Christian God, and the Easter Bunny at 6. A scientist should know that hypotheses can only be asserted tentatively.

People have different definitions for atheism.

There are ideologies behind creationism, but there is nothing but "non-believer" behind atheism. But being labeled an Atheist means people are going to make all kinds of charges against you, because it has become a dirty word. I do not see how a person that rejects belief in a God should stand in a space provided, as there are all kinds of filthiness associated with it.

Quote
Another problem with calling ourselves “atheists” is that every religious person thinks he has a knockdown argument against atheism. We’ve all heard these arguments, and we are going to keep hearing them as long as we insist upon calling ourselves “atheists. Arguments like: atheists can’t prove that God doesn’t exist; atheists are claiming to know there is no God, and this is the most arrogant claim of all. As Rick Warren put it, when he and I debated for Newsweek—a reasonable man like himself “doesn’t have enough faith to be an atheist.” The idea that the universe could arise without a creator is, on his account, the most extravagant faith claim of all.

Of course, as an argument for the truth of any specific religious doctrine, this is a travesty. And we all know what to do in this situation: We have Russell’s teapot, and thousands of dead gods, and now a flying spaghetti monster, the nonexistence of which also cannot be proven, and yet belief in these things is acknowledged to be ridiculous by everyone. The problem is, we have to keep having this same argument, over and over again, and the argument is being generated to a significant degree, if not entirely, over our use of the term “atheism.”

So too with the “greatest crimes of the 20th century” argument. How many times are we going to have to counter the charge that Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot represent the endgame of atheism? I’ve got news for you, this meme is not going away. I argued against it in The End of Faith, and it was immediately thrown back at me in reviews of the book as though I had never mentioned it. So I tackled it again in the afterword to the paperback edition of The End of Faith; but this had no effect whatsoever; so at the risk of boring everyone, I brought it up again in Letter to a Christian Nation; and Richard did the same in The God Delusion; and Christopher took a mighty swing at it in God is Not Great. I can assure you that this bogus argument will be with us for as long as people label themselves “atheists.” And it really convinces religious people. It convinces moderates and liberals. It even convinces the occasional atheist.

Why should we fall into this trap? Why should we stand obediently in the space provided, in the space carved out by the conceptual scheme of theistic religion? It’s as though, before the debate even begins, our opponents draw the chalk-outline of a dead man on the sidewalk, and we just walk up and lie down in it.


Sam Harris

This post was edited by Indent on May 3 2013 07:49pm
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May 3 2013 07:56pm
@
Quote (Indent @ 4 May 2013 01:48)


'atheist' hasn't become a dirty word, it was loaded up with negativity long ago
fortunately most of the civilised world is moving away from that - not the usa naturally

and in my book self-declared atheists are very much religious in their belief in 'no god'
agnosticism for the win
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May 3 2013 07:59pm
Quote (brmv @ May 3 2013 09:56pm)
@

'atheist' hasn't become a dirty word, it was loaded up with negativity long ago
fortunately most of the civilised world is moving away from that - not the usa naturally

and in my book self-declared atheists are very much religious in their belief in 'no god'
agnosticism for the win


Agnoscticism is pretty much the only valid position. Atheism is naive because it assumes too much and theism is naive because it assumes too much.
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May 3 2013 08:14pm
Quote (Indent @ May 3 2013 06:54pm)
Atheist is a word that has no content behind it.

You might not be an astrologer, so should we create a word that means non-astrologer? Would there be ideologies behind this word for non-astrology?


Atheism is a negation that leaves a huge void that is most often filled with secular ideology, morality and purpose.

Most often though it is exactly as the poll states.
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