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#51
Nov 15 2023 11:17am
Quote (C4NTWO @ Nov 15 2023 11:04am)
does that mean that team human is probably a bunch of religious fanatics that think god created earth at the center of the universe just for them? lol

imo, almond milk is gross and steak is delicious...


The trend has been rising secularism, hopefully the trend continues
Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Nov 15 2023 11:05am)
Team Earth.

Only humans were naïve enough and prideful enough to say "We could do better then nature". This is supported by the development of sophisticated language where humans use the term "I" as a differentiation from what was already ONE. Nature/God(one and the same)

This is where it is easy to see that EGO which developed only under MAN is responsible for the disruption of the very systems God/Nature intended to be there and were crucial in our development.

I often hear people say or people believe if we as humans get to the Moon or Mars and our species "continues" while the planet burns that it'd be a success story. I don't think so.

That'd be like setting "Noah's Ark" ablaze with all living things aboard and then going...well at least I'll/We'll make it out! We could always find a new planet(not gonna happen)

I wouldn't want to stand before my creator and have knowingly had a role in any form of destruction not necessary. As Buddha famously said, A "single blade of grass" has just as much of a right to be here and exist as I do. This (human) life is not more valuable then even the lowliest "worm".


Agree to disagree

I don’t “believe” we will get to mars and beyond, but If I was in charge would do anything I could to get it done. This is kind of a key difference, I don’t “believe” as much as I make assumptions that are subject to change

I will try to keep noahs ark afloat simultaneously with investing in spacex launches.

Destruction of the environment is incredibly subjective as is. How many people here are living in teepees or tents

Imo it’s that exact ego of the man that is so arrogant to think they can sum up the universe in words a 5 year old can understand, and having the gall to “believe” you have moral authority over other humans that don’t share your particular set of delusions, so you justify murdering x population

Such has been the human plague

Ironically team earth still suffers after the actions of team religion

Team human n1




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#52
Nov 15 2023 11:22am
Quote (majorblood @ Nov 15 2023 12:14pm)
yeah i don't really care if random species to extinct as long as humans prosper. The only reason i'd care if a certain species went extinct is if it directly affected humans, like cows suddenly not existing. You can make the argument of emotional appeal/attachment to certain species, but ultimately it's not that important. I care about the planet being 'healthy' relative to the betterment of humans, i.e. clean drinking water for humans, sustainable farm land for humans etc.


dont get me wrong, im not some green vegan nut job lol, but nature is not here to serve us.
it was here long before we existed, and unless we nuke it smithereens it will be here long after we're gone. but how can you ignore that the entire planet is an ecosystem that requires balance... and like you said, unless it directly affected humans, but cows rely on grass, grass relies on sun, and if we block out the sun we loose... well, hopefully you can see where im going with this...
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#53
Nov 15 2023 11:23am
Quote (majorblood @ 15 Nov 2023 11:07)
lmao this is just cringe man you'd never sacrifice your life to save a worm, or your mother's life to save 2 worms and you know it. this is just all a lie


Were not talking about "sacrificing" I know you are tethered to your Abrahamic faith and you want to see it in that "divine grace" but if you can't see that all existence is just as important(i.e all things are one) then you are deluded.

Buddha was simply pacifying someone whose Ego was going unchecked.

"Oh so you are so holy everything should wither and die for your cause"???

"Oh you want to bitch and complain that your life/your moms life wasn't good enough in the time you had here"???

If you see God everywhere you don't have the "worthless attachment" to an existence that is "temporary".

I've already accepted that everyone I love will die. Accepted to the root of my being so that when that time comes I'm not clinging onto their body/image/name the same way Western faiths practice.

Dust you are and to dust ye shall return
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#54
Nov 15 2023 11:24am
Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Nov 15 2023 09:23am)
Were not talking about "sacrificing" I know you are tethered to your Abrahamic faith and you want to see it in that "divine grace" but if you can't see that all existence is just as important(i.e all things are one) then you are deluded.

Buddha was simply pacifying someone whose Ego was going unchecked.

"Oh so you are so holy everything should wither and die for your cause"???

"Oh you want to bitch and complain that your life/your moms life wasn't good enough in the time you had here"???

If you see God everywhere you don't have the "worthless attachment" to an existence that is "temporary".

I've already accepted that everyone I love will die. Accepted to the root of my being so that when that time comes I'm not clinging onto their body/image/name the same way Western faiths practice.

Dust you are and to dust ye shall return


I am not religious, so the premise is just completely wrong

This post was edited by majorblood on Nov 15 2023 11:37am
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#55
Nov 15 2023 11:28am
Quote (Modulok2405 @ Nov 15 2023 12:14pm)
The hoover dam didnt occur natural, no. We built it from natural materials.
What about a beaver dam? Also not natural in your opinion I guess?

Not everything humans do is natural, but all humans do and make is based on nature.


honestly the dam issue has me halted a bit. bad example, lol but your comment about what we build from being "natural" is stupid. we use natural materials for nuclear power which creates toxic waste. that toxic waste would not exist if it wasnt for humans. therefore is not natural.
i think a beaver dam is natural because of its scale and the amount of disruption (which compared to humans is minimal) is creates in the ecosystem it belongs to. the water it retains was already there and the beaver needs his home.

the difference somewhat lies in the idea that we built a dam to generate electricity. something we use as "luxuries" but is also something we dont actually need to survive. thats what i was getting at before with the idea that we run on $$...

we cant eat money...

This post was edited by C4NTWO on Nov 15 2023 11:34am
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#56
Nov 15 2023 11:31am
Quote (C4NTWO @ Nov 15 2023 11:22am)
dont get me wrong, im not some green vegan nut job lol, but nature is not here to serve us.
it was here long before we existed, and unless we nuke it smithereens it will be here long after we're gone. but how can you ignore that the entire planet is an ecosystem that requires balance... and like you said, unless it directly affected humans, but cows rely on grass, grass relies on sun, and if we block out the sun we loose... well, hopefully you can see where im going with this...


I mean in all seriousness, there is a point to be made that a proper functioning and stable ecosystem is also beneficial for humanity overall. I’m actually a big believer in environmental protection while I’m a big advocate for scientific prowess. I don’t think both are mutually exclusive, broadly speaking. There may be specific acts that are contentious but I’m of the opinion you can still advance science, which I would equate with team human, and still be protective of our home

I do think it becomes ironic how NOT team earth Vegan principles actually are, who are self proclaimed team earthists. You claim to care about the feelings of a cow but you’re ok with the overall destruction of the environment to appease those feelings



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#57
Nov 15 2023 11:33am
Quote (Bazi @ 15 Nov 2023 11:17)
The trend has been rising secularism, hopefully the trend continues

Agree to disagree

I don’t “believe” we will get to mars and beyond, but If I was in charge would do anything I could to get it done. This is kind of a key difference, I don’t “believe” as much as I make assumptions that are subject to change

I will try to keep noahs ark afloat simultaneously with investing in spacex launches.

Destruction of the environment is incredibly subjective as is. How many people here are living in teepees or tents

Imo it’s that exact ego of the man that is so arrogant to think they can sum up the universe in words a 5 year old can understand, and having the gall to “believe” you have moral authority over other humans that don’t share your particular set of delusions, so you justify murdering x population

Such has been the human plague

Ironically team earth still suffers after the actions of team religion

Team human n1


I wasn't disagreeing that organized religion is "a" bane on humanity/existence but it is not the only factor clearly.

Science on the other hand has developed nuclear weapons tested and deployed that have done irreversible damage to our planet.

Science developed nuclear power plants then put them near oceans for the convenience of "cooling" only to have an earthquake on a known "fault line" send "Fukushima" into critical and that's still leaking into the Pacific Ocean. They actually just "ok'd" the releasing of all this radioactive water much to the displeasure of the locals around there and countries abroad.

Science will be what put's the collective "nails in the coffin" so to speak. Religion doesn't have the capacity to unknowingly destroy an aspect of this planet's life support system. Science does.

So yea organized religion sucks but science is the real reaper imo
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#58
Nov 15 2023 11:33am
Quote (Bazi @ Nov 15 2023 12:31pm)
I mean in all seriousness, there is a point to be made that a proper functioning and stable ecosystem is also beneficial for humanity overall.


absolutely. our farming industry relies on it...
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#59
Nov 15 2023 11:34am
Quote (C4NTWO @ Nov 15 2023 09:28am)
honestly the dam issue has me halted a bit. bad example, lol but your comment about what we build from being "natural" is stupid. we use natural materials for nuclear power which creates toxic waste. that toxic waste would not exist if it wasnt for humans. therefore is not natural.

i think a beaver dam is natural because of its scale and the amount of disruption is creates in the ecosystem it belongs to.

the difference somewhat lies in the idea that we built a dam to generate electricity. something we use as "luxuries" but is also something we dont actually need to survive. thats what i was getting at before with the idea that we run on $$...

we cant eat money...


we absolutely do need energy to survive, billions would die without it. is it possible for humans to exist in a primitive form without any technology/energy, etc? yes obviously, but life would be far worse for humans without it and therefore it is a good thing that the hoover dam, fracking, and other methods of generating energy exist.
Quote (C4NTWO @ Nov 15 2023 09:22am)
dont get me wrong, im not some green vegan nut job lol, but nature is not here to serve us.
it was here long before we existed, and unless we nuke it smithereens it will be here long after we're gone. but how can you ignore that the entire planet is an ecosystem that requires balance... and like you said, unless it directly affected humans, but cows rely on grass, grass relies on sun, and if we block out the sun we loose... well, hopefully you can see where im going with this...


nature is conquered by humans, kinda does serve us in that sense

never said some type of balance isn't necessary to facilitate life on earth for humans, just saying my primary focus is the betterment of life on earth for humans. I don't care about the "planet's health" unless that affects humans, and honestly I prefer certain humans more than others anyway i.e. i'm not taking refugees in my home because I do not value everyone equally. I value myself and my family above others, then close friends, community, etc and the further you are from me I value you less and less
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#60
Nov 15 2023 11:36am
Quote (majorblood @ 15 Nov 2023 11:24)
I am not not religious, so the premise is just completely wrong


Not what I said either. I am religious by the way I just don't ascribe to "one book" like you do.

You can be fully devoted to Jesus Christ and still read Eastern philosophy/schools of thought and see the connections.

Vedanta isn't an "organized religion" it's a philosophy there's a difference.
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