Tl:dr

Rando commando lighting up pard today.

And no, I'm not arguing with you, so I've provided no argument. My arguments don't hide behind so many words.

You called me an idiot a few times in this post, you should really grow up you are displaying a lot of immaturity. You must have heard the word 'idiot' a lot growing up; I'm sorry

This post was edited by Skinned on May 18 2020 07:59am

Typical progressive, attempting to point fingers and speak nonsense, and refusing to admit it when proven full of shit. Now, if you want some REAL information on what's going on in blue states that are extending lockdowns either statewide or in certain areas, while simultaneously denying unemployment claims in those areas:

1. The impact on corporations (and corporate donors) is relatively minor. You may have one or two, such as Tesla, who'll freak out and sue, and possibly leave. But they're the rarity. They have the bankroll to weather the storm and come out on top, assuming they're not already classed as essential.
2. The impact on small businesses is severe. As with the case of the Salon in the article above. But there is a backup for the business owner. A federal program was setup for small business loans to help cover business costs during the lockdown, as well as supplement employee payrolls if needed. These, however are LOANS, not grants.
3. By blue states denying unemployment to the employees of these small businesses, they're preventing not only the state payout (note that every employee and business owner is paying unemployment insurance out of every paycheck, these denials are a form of fraud), but they're preventing the $600/week payout from the federal government, which is supposed to make up losses in real wages due to limitations on state level unemployment. There is no alternative way to get the $600/week federal add to unemployment than through the state unemployment program.
4. The business owners then have to take additional loans from the federal program, to continue covering costs not only to themselves and their small business specifically, but to keep their employees from starving.
5. After the lockdown is ended, the business resumes as normal, but it's got a mountain of crushing debt. The problem is, the months that the business was closed for aren't coming back. They can't go back and get that lost income. And most small businesses operate on a very marginal (5% or less) profit, so to pay off these loans could take a greater span of time than they will live through. And if they default, they LOSE their business.
6. When the dust settles, the Dems are going to point to these crushing loans and claim that it's all because Republicans wouldn't "GIVE" you this money. And yet the Administration DID clear that money. The blue states actively prevented it by denying the unemployment claims.
7. Dems claim that Republicans don't care about small business owners, and if the small business owners only vote Dem, they'll "forgive" the debts and pay it back to the banks for them.
8. Dems raise taxes to untold new heights to legitimately meet their commitment, but NEVER reduce the taxes. Power of government grows even more substantially in those states, power of the people, and business is further decreased, working class grows poorer, while those wealthy enough to afford it flee to the Red states where they aren't crushed under the weight of unreasonable taxation.

Dems do NOT care about the working class. They're using the working class like puppets in their game for power. Nothing more. The steps are choreographed, and if allowed, will almost certainly play out exactly as outlined.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on May 18 2020 08:14am

Its too bad we lacked any kind of federal leadership through all this

McConnell said he wants the states to just go bankrupt. That's a quote. What would happen to all those families if those pensions and wages just evaporated?

Oh, also, in terms of economics, tax cuts don't lead to growth, rather increased savings among those who have savings. That's an economic truth. Aggregate expenditure is the thing that is important....giving poor people money. Tax cuts help me though. Trump has put thousands of tax dollars back in my pocket and I'm not hurtin'. I got an actual return this year, it finished paying off the last tax bill of the Obama years and now that $75 a month isn't coming out.

For a while I was worried I was going to get a 3 year tax payback plan every tax season. Like how many can I have going at once? I've gotten so many handouts from the Republican party I know they're trying to buy my vote.

This post was edited by Skinned on May 18 2020 08:23am

skinned gets worked like a speedbag by insanebobb and results to producing fake math, talking about Bush (who he helped elect), and blaming America for a virus that spawned in China

I think the plan was never for this scenario to materialize - the plan was for this scenario to force states into radically reopening their economies and thus sacrificing their elderly for profits.

Now, that sounds like true McConnell, doesnt it?

Like a speedbag? He is hitting keys like a speedbag. He is writing essays not me. I corrected my statement into attempts which is what i meant but a technical gotcha since there is apparently a ledger among your squad.

And yeah, mistakes of the past are mistakes of the present. Same dudes at it again. And yea, i helped elect Bush twice, by voting Nader in both his elections instead of Gore/Kerry.

Federal leadership has been excellent. The backing of $600 per week to bolster state-based unemployment insurance has guaranteed that All those who earn up to $48,000/year would still make 100% of their wages during the lockdown. The additional loan possibility allowed that any extra costs above and beyond what the unemployment insurance could cover for the small business owners and employees could be covered at reasonable interest rates, with delayed initial payments. Stimulus checks which were paid out in full to nearly everyone regardless of income level if direct deposit were setup, and to all who earn below $40,000/year by the end of April further assisted in meeting the financial crisis.

The refusal of Democrats to understand that the economic impact of telling someone, "You aren't essential, you no longer have the right to self preservation, even when it comes to putting bread on your table." then denying them their unemployment benefits for the unemployment that those state governments themselves IMPOSED is the issue here. The fact that very few red states are seeing this problem is due to the fact that Republicans DO have a feel for the working class, and DO value them as more than just pawns in their little game for wealth and power.

And that's not the quote. You should probably go look up the full quote. Mitch McConnell doesn't want anything to do with bailing out blue states (Like Oregon, or Washington, or California, or New York, or Illinois) that have excessively high tax rates, both on income and property, have utilized the lack of SALT tax caps for decades to continue increasing state level taxes while paying far less in Federal tax, SHIT on their working classes by denying them claims to things like Unemployment insurance, then try to dump all their bullshit problems at the feet of the federal government. Frankly, I agree with him. And the actions of the democrat mayors and governors of those states against small business owners and employees simply serves to prove that his point is valid.

Why should the federal government "bail out" states that won't even cover the people who're paying the taxes that pay for their pensions and wages? Because that's what the blue states want. They want to have state-level GOVERNMENT workers' pensions and wages covered by the federal government. The private sector doesn't even get pensions. Haven't for half a century. And anyone who worked for a COMPANY, not the government, who had a pension and is still living, is still collecting, unless the company is gone or already went through bankruptcy.

You keep pointing at government as the answer to the problem. You're wrong. The government CAUSED this problem. The only way they can fix it is to step back, allow people to get back to work, and only offer to aid the elderly and immunocompromised to self-quarantine for a while longer, while COVID runs it's course. Which should have been the reaction to the virus in the first place. It wasn't the federal government who "locked down" "nonessential workers". That was purely at the state level and discretion.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on May 18 2020 08:36am

He wants to kill my population:(

They have it hard enough. Aging sucks. America already wants to write them off and hide them. Now sacrifice them for capitalism.

I know soooo many people in nursing homes. I know many others who have the impossible job of keeping Covid out. One place we talk to regularly had 60 infections out of 80 beds a week ago. It sucks because there are a lot of seniors i just adore who my team has helped find their forever home in a nice structured environment who i know have been killed by this.

Its traumatic as hell wearing all that equipment and being around so much suffering. It is taxing in so many ways. Its physically exhausing from moving bodies that can't move well on their own, mentally because healthcare is already stressful but you have the layers of goggles, gloves, the same fucking n95 mask youve seen 300 patienta with already, we have a cleaning service now, and all this weird isolation precautions so youre second guessing things....don't mess up that decimal point on the med draw nurses....and emotionally. Initially it was all overwhelming and i dont think i was the only healthcare worker who had episodes of crying or near crying, recentering self, and reengaging. The built in support of group supervision is being done over zoom which is crappy. The emotional labor with families is over the top.

Things fucking suck and i hope they're back to normal soon. Coronaviruses aren't as prevalent during the Summer months so hopefully, if the stars align, there is a lull, and a treatment or vaccine developed during thar time so that next year's covid season isn't so destructive.




I'm an idiot Bob, why are you trying to convince an idiot that your worldview is right?

Why do you keep engaging with idiots, bob?

Why do you care of an idiot is calling it the Trump virus? An idiot called it the China virus too.

This post was edited by Skinned on May 18 2020 08:41am

No, talk to governor Cuomo if you want somebody who wants to kill your population. Old person got COVID? Require hospitals to send them back to the nursing home. Suddenly everyone at the nursing homes get covid and 80% of them die? Oh shit! Blame Trump response for New York's numbers, over half originating from the nursing homes!

Maybe, rather than taking your hyper-focused minute view of why you think things are bad, if you want things to get better, LISTEN for once. Things WILL get better. But if we'd simply quarantined the deathly ill of the virus, and allowed the old, sick, and infirm to self-isolate, the situation all around would be better.

Instead, the prediction is that 60% of all current small business will be out of business by 2021. And at the rate things are progressing, blue states are set to lose MAJOR employers to red states that will treat them and their workers better. If you want things to be better, stop talking up a lockdown, and start focusing on the fact that we're on the brink of a Depression that'll BEGGER the Great Depression. Unemployment numbers right now are WORSE than they ever were during the Great Depression. All over BAD policy by BLUE states.

They can't stay at the hospitals, its a more acute environment. If you can't send them home then you can't treat other people who need acute treatment. After acute treatment you go to the post acute environment. Our beds are finite and crucial. You're just being reactionary without thinking now. I won't call you an idiot for not understanding Level of Care in healthcare. Cuomo is right, people have to go home when they're done at the hospital. I was a discharge planner for three years, i made it happen, including physically dragging people out kicking and screaming. I know every homeless shelter in a 150 mile radius lol. About all nursing homes too.

I don't really care about your prediction that red States will become nice some day.

This post was edited by Skinned on May 18 2020 09:16am