Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 6 2023 04:13pm)

To give an example, here's a picture of Ma'ale Adumim today, a settlement in Area C of the West Bank about 4 miles east of Jerusalem, smack in the middle of the Judean desert

https://i.imgur.com/iZo7bd8.png

It was mostly unoccupied throughout history, then between 1945 and 1967 some Bedouins resettled there to use as grazing, and the Palestinian landowners under Jordan lost their control of the land in the Six Day War, and the Israelis started construction on settlements in the 70s and made it into a city in the 90s. The Israelis maintain that the land they used to build it was not registered in anyones name and contained no private property, while Palestinians say it expropriated land from historical villages, with Abu Dis being about two miles southwest. But either way, it was clearly an empty stretch of desert. Eventually as both Abu Dis and Ma'ale Adumim both expanded, they now border each other with the closest line of Palestinian and Israeli houses about a thousand feet from each other.



Arguing over settling being legal or illegal and any other nonsense premised in international law to which no parties are subject, is the same kind of farce as geopolitical moralizing arguments, except even less grounded in reality.
Palestinians have as much legal right to the land in the West Bank as Israel gives them, no more, no less. Israel took it in the six day war, that's the geopolitical reality. The only applicable laws to settlement construction are the ones Israel sets on itself.

Quote (Bazi @ Nov 6 2023 04:19pm)

Right

And since Israel is the top dog and no reasonable 2SS can occur without their agreement/active participation

how is Israel working for a 2SS while it continues and encourages predatory settling in the West Bank, antagonizing the more diplomatic of the two main Palestinian political parties

Can we be honest and acknowledge that this undermines any positive relations and progress towards a 2SS - which is publicly their stated goal

Quote (El1te @ Nov 6 2023 05:34pm)

When America won the American-Mexican war, the territory of Texas was fully annexed by the USA, and settled by Americans.

If you don't have a problem with this, you also shouldn't have a problem with Israelis settling the West Bank

To add, plenty of Mexicans have settled in Texas. Spanish is the de facto second language of the USA and there are plenty of Mexican nationals living there

Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 6 2023 04:24pm)

Simple: They aren't. The 2SS has been dead and abandoned for decades. Its the publicly stated goal of the US too, but what have we done since the Camp David summit? Its been plainly defunct since the Hamas-Fatah schism
And that goes right to the point I'm making: If the premise of the primary harm is that it obstructs a two state solution, and you know the 2SS has been dead and buried for decades, what's the harm? Corpse desecration?

Quote (Bazi @ Nov 6 2023 04:30pm)

You see the problem here is that you have multiple actors
You acknowledge Israel doesn’t want a 2ss, despite their rhetoric
Hamas doesn’t want a 2SS
WB does want a 2SS
Saudi /US rhetoric and actions support a 2ss
It is one gigantic clusterfuck of false intentions. The only certainty is more, preventable, civilian death if the end intentions are not clear here

Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 6 2023 04:32pm)

Welcome to the middle east enjoy your stay
Its been an intractable problem for nearly 80 years of course its a clusterfuck.
The best we can do is anticipate the probable new status quo, which I've said will be a DMZ around Gaza with some of the north annexed and border Kibbutz left evacuated. It does leave more uncertainty to the West Bank

Quote

Los Angeles: A pro-Palestinian is suspected of beating a pro-Israel protester to death with a megaphone
Daniel Adelson, New York
A suspected pro-Palestinian protester who beat to death with a megaphone a pro-Israel protester in one of the neighborhoods in Los Angeles. This is how ynet learned. According to people present at the scene, a verbal confrontation developed between the two that suddenly escalated. The protester, a relatively elderly supporter of Israel, lay on the floor while bleeding - and was rushed to a hospital. Today he was pronounced dead due to a cerebral hemorrhage. Israelis who were there said: "It was a terrifying sight. God's fear that something like this is happening here in the neighborhood."
The Los Angeles Police Department confirmed the details of the case to Ynet, but declined to provide further details at this time. As of this time, it is not possible to say whether the suspect has been arrested