Quote (thesnipa @ 14 Sep 2021 19:23)

so if we did a scientific measure and came up with 113 people you'd be pleased? any borderline company is going to likely downsize to avoid the mandate if it even gets enforced anyways. or convert X# of employees to contractors.

Quote (thundercock @ 14 Sep 2021 20:54)

Careful, Biden might lower the number just to spite you.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 14 2021 12:05pm)

I genuinely don't think that this 100 employee cutoff makes any sense. Either covid is still so dangerous that it's justified and worth the political fallout to force people to get jabbed against their will, or it isn't.

And if it is, then the only logical course of action is a vaccine mandate which affects the entire economy.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 14 2021 02:05pm)

I genuinely don't think that this 100 employee cutoff makes any sense. Either covid is still so dangerous that it's justified and worth the political fallout to force people to get jabbed against their will, or it isn't.

And if it is, then the only logical course of action is a vaccine mandate which affects the entire economy.

Quote (thundercock @ 14 Sep 2021 22:20)

On a side note, it seems like this policy is very popular.
https://morningconsult.com/2021/09/13/white-house-covid-vaccination-mandates-poll/

Quote (thundercock @ 14 Sep 2021 16:20)

It's a nice round number, that's all it is. From a policy perspective, you also have to look at "efficacy" of implementing a particular policy. You absolutely should have a complex calculation that takes into consideration current vaccination rates in the county, hospital capacity, age demographics, etc. if your goal is to balance liberty with the collective good. But you're also talking about a government that doesn't even have cost of living adjustments for tax purposes. $100k in Wyoming vs. $100k in San Francisco is extraordinarily different but the IRS will treat you equally. It's much, much easier for the administration to come up with this number and stick with it. Don't be surprised if the next number is 50 instead of 71.

On a side note, it seems like this policy is very popular.
https://morningconsult.com/2021/09/13/white-house-covid-vaccination-mandates-poll/

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 14 2021 01:55pm)

I wouldn't call 58% support very popular, particularly when we keep in mind that 75% of the adult population has received at least one dose*. So these numbers actually show that there is a non-negligible section of the electorate which is vaccinated, but does not support forcing the jab on others.



* https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total

Quote (excellence @ Sep 14 2021 01:59pm)

karens who dont work or work remotely want everyone else to get vaccinated so they can go back to bottomless mimosa brunches

encouraging vaccines is excellent. No-fault/no-liability vaccine mandates on a virus the govt has zero control over even with vaccines are folly. but roberts and or kavanaugh will make sure it becomes the law of the land in a 5-4 decision

Quote (thundercock @ Sep 14 2021 02:54pm)

Careful, Biden might lower the number just to spite you.

Quote (thundercock @ 14 Sep 2021 17:41)

58-36 is VERY popular in America....that's a larger differential than Biden vs. Trump...in Oregon. But yea, there are some people who are vaccinated but don't want it imposed on others. What's your point? Are you implying that these people should have some outsized voice?



At some point, a change in strategy is necessary. How many more carrots can we possibly give? We really don't want to be in a situation where multiple thousands are dying daily in the winter like we had this last winter. We're already in a situation with more people dying in the summer under Biden than Trump...with the vaccine readily available AND better treatments. That's completely unacceptable.

Quote (thundercock @ 14 Sep 2021 23:41)

58-36 is VERY popular in America....that's a larger differential than Biden vs. Trump...in Oregon. But yea, there are some people who are vaccinated but don't want it imposed on others. What's your point? Are you implying that these people should have some outsized voice?

Quote

At some point, a change in strategy is necessary. How many more carrots can we possibly give? We really don't want to be in a situation where multiple thousands are dying daily in the winter like we had this last winter. We're already in a situation with more people dying in the summer under Biden than Trump...with the vaccine readily available AND better treatments. That's completely unacceptable.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 15 Sep 2021 00:00)

36% of passionate, hardened opposition against a policy is enough to lead to very bad outcomes if you roll over them, particularly on a topic as emotionally charged as bodily autonomy.
I disagree that America's hyperpolarized, gridlocked political landscape should be used to relativize the popularity of positions or policies.

Side note: Oregon is a very inelastic state which reliably votes for Democrats, but not by overwhelming margins. GWB came within 7k votes of winning it back in 2000. ;)



Tbh, I'm not sure how I would act if I were in Biden's shoes. Shit has already kinda hit the fan when the vaccination campaign stalled too early and opinions on the vaccines hardened. Now, only really bad options are left.
For the record: I wouldn't mind a blanket vaccine mandate for which Biden/Democrats take full responsibility. I prefer a different approach, but I could live with that.

What absolutely rubs me the wrong way, however, is this cowardly hiding behind employers or event organizers/shop owners to impose pressure on the unvaccinated along the lines of you don't have to get vaccinated, but you'll be ostracized from good jobs and all forms of social life if you don't. Your ""choice"".




Why is that unacceptable? I believe in a man's god given right to make horrible, moronic decisions when it comes to his own life. If people are unvaccinated despite better knowledge, catch the virus and die, then so be it. The nation's average IQ and gene pool could use a boost anyway.