The level of safety and stability we've become accustomed to here is making us lazy and entitled. In the vast majority of countries around the globe, you aren't entitled to retirement benefits, to be able to support a family on a job that's for people like teenagers, to stay in an entry-level role and get all of these things, etc.

Like where I come from, things like 401k's, retirement accounts, being able to have more than one car, having a 4+ bedroom home is not something even people that are middle class consider.

I reject the notion that unless people are afforded these luxuries in basic entry-level roles, then they should just stay home and collect social benefits. A system that creates this environment is highly flawed and counterproductive.

Honestly, it's reasons like this foreigners are killing you guys (Americans) in the professional job market. You guys lack the perspective of the real world.
That's why Chinese, Indians, Eastern Europeans, and so on that are coming here are eating your lunch and will continue to do so. The Indian kid will come here to get his master's degree while working some trash job on campus not cry about fairness or how tough it is, how expensive it is, the loans he has to take out because he has perspective. He understands what an opportunity it is to live in a country like the US or Canada.

yes, vocational schools are in most places subject to in and out of state fees just like 4 year universities.

what's missing from this conversation imo are 3 things:

1. its far more realistic to take classes for a 1 year welding certificate part time and meet your goal of graduating in a timely manner

2. the lower cost makes sending employees to school on the employers dime far more likely

3. the lower skill cap and high need for on the job training opens the door for getting hired as a welder with no school at all

my company has paid for people to get welding certificates in their free time, and we've bumped pay of workers willing to learn MIG welding on the job without any school.

those may or may not fit into the context of either of your points, but they're valid.

You're comparing the wealthiest country in the world to the third world. Virtually every country we actively compete with has entitled retirment benefits, vacation days, and national healthcare.

Sorry you grew up in a shit hole, but we have more than enough wealth in this country to give that to every person and still have plenty left over, and all the evidence shows we would be better and more efficient because of it.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on May 4 2021 10:33am

We actually don't. What we're doing is borrowing from future generations which is irresponsible, short-sighted, and selfish.

oh so now the deficit matters?

pathetic.

It has always mattered. Just like how we get there matters.

What's pathetic is your fake concern for responsible fiscal policy while constantly cheerleading dumb leftist spending notions like UBI.

as i tried to explain to a small minded child last week, cant remember who, im in favor of raising spending and collections in the interest of maintaining responsibility, but not a conservative label.

on UBI specifically, as ive posted maybe 100 times now, im for an incremental adoption of UBI. and currently id be in favor of a targeted automation tax and starting to close the R&D loopholes on automation to begin building a pool for UBI where payments are not even given yet. not even covid caused the jobloss requisite for payouts in my system.

you know if you bothered to understand my stances you wouldnt end up looking like an idiot ala endless with your silly strawmans. its like u guys found out i was pro-Yang and stopped listening.

we actually have we actually have way more than enough. We just blow it all on military spending and endless Wars. In some cases we would actually save a significant amount of money, like if we implemented a national health care plan.

the only argument against nationalized healthcare is the fringe case of the young and healthy 20 something male who wants to have zero healthcare coverage. that person saves money in america.

its exploitation of ego, because we all want to pretend we're invincible 20 something males.

The current notion of the left of how we pay for everything is beyond naive. "Well we'll just raise taxes on the rich who make over 1M in capital gains" it won't affect anyone but them.

This is such a simple-minded perspective because money, now more than ever can be moved so easily around. In all of history, the rich have always found a way to protect their wealth and now it won't be much different. If I'm in that group I could go become a citizen of Ireland or Cyprus and pay taxes there. Problem solved. (Cyprus actually has programs where you can buy citizenships)

Ok well, we can raise taxes on corporates. Again, very simplistic perspective and it will cause trillions of dollars that would have been taxed at some lower rate in the US to not be taxed at all as it sits in offshore holdings. It will also cause less job creation, less investment as taxes would squeeze their margins making them much less competitive versus east Asian competitors.

So the natural next step is to raise taxes on the middle class and this is precisely where we are going. That's why so many ultra-rich today are mostly left, because they know how to work the system and they know that they won't be left holding the bag.

I want a future where my kids have freedom, freedom to go on vacation, to move around, to go out to eat, to decide which healthcare plan is right for them, and so on, not a future where they are stuck because taxes are 60% and while they have a basic place to live and healthcare they are basically stuck in some existence because what would have been their disposable income, much of it is appropriated by government to pay for all of this.