You accuse me of propaganda, when I'm either posting facts with sources or quotes from catalan politicians and documents, which I can link to if necessary... meanwhile, you keep coming with more fake news, like the "seizure of catalan finances by Madrid to prevent said misuse, resulting in massive losses for Catalonia".

First of all, the intervention took place a couple of weeks before the referendum (aka, half a year ago)... it's not like it's an old time measure that has caused a huge impact in the catalan economy. Secondly, it was not "to prevent said misuse", it was a protocolary reaction to the catalan government refusing to send their weekly documents on their financial status.



There is no big brother, Spain and Catalonia aren't, and have never been, separate entities. The UK has no constitution that stopped Scottland from having a referendum, so the case isn't comparable. Our constitution can be amended through a nationwide referendum to allow this vote, so there is a legal way out. Almost 30% of spaniards voted for parties in favour of such a change in the last nationwide elections so, while still far from being a majority, it's not impossible that such a change could happen in the future.

You claim the government should have accepted the catalan government's demands, but that is simply not a decision the government can make on their own, even if they really wanted to. It would be illegal under the constitution for them to accept such a demand. There are no "legal referenda" involving national sovereingty that the government can grant to the regions; the government doesn't have such a power (in the UK perhaps, but not here). Sure, they could have held a referendum to change the constitution, but again looking at how only 30% of people voted for parties in favour of such a change, the way things were at the moment, or things are right now, there would be literally no chance of the change going through. It would be a political suicide to organize a referendum you know you are going to lose.

If the constitution is change to favour the interest of the separatists, then I will not oppose a referendum, but until then I will not support it at all, as I will always stand by the rule of law.

so desperate

never provided a single argument/fact in the entire catalonia discussion

YOU have been caught spreading false information, feel free to do the same for me (if you can that is)

person without any knowledge, arguments or facts who only comes here to spread authoritarian propaganda and insult other people when exposed, dares people to fact check his factless drivel... couldn't make that shit up...



ah, the good old 'a change in the political landscape that COULD at some point lead to the POSSIBILITY of a PROPOSAL to change the constitution in a way that would make a feasible OPPORTUNITY of self-determination even legal, could totally happen... some day' talking point. we've been over this already - it's complete BS and ALMOST as unrealistic as an independence under the current interpretation of the constitution by the central government and its courts. and you know that, so please stop pretending otherwise.
it's almost as dishonest as strawmanning (no one said "resulting in massive losses for catalonia" - i said "significantly more expensive than the ALLEGED misuse of funds") and pretending the seizure of catalan funds had nothing to do with their independence aspirations (funny how suddenly the 'impact on the economy' has become a factor). like 'justifying' violence against civilians by stating 'we're just enforcing the rule of law according to a supreme court ruling' and justifying political arrests with 'treason' charges, they don't outright call it what it is - don't you get tired of pretending to be obtuse?

well, if you're happy with the centralist narrative 'that's the law, we're only enforcing it' (sounds a lot like the bs going on in turkey and russia tbh - they also just "enforce the law" when arresting opposition leaders and violently oppressing protests against the government) you can act like you're merely a principled rule of law supporter. what you can't do, however, is make people believe that narrative when you keep making excuses for madrid's transgressions and spreading incredibly biased and one-sided talking points trying to exclusively blame catalonia while condoning these fascist methods and the governments outright refusal to even negotiate a realistic path to independence...

how much sauerkraut liquid seeped out of fender aka heinrich’s pores as he sweatily typed up this rage essay (devoid of any connection to reality, as usual for that fella) over the last hour and change?

oh my god



talking about yourself perchance? i mean you are still the guy who was spreading false information here







i can only see retarded and triggered statements without any facts
calling other opinions bullshit is not an argument, but its great to see that spain has already made it to the level of turkey and russia, not to mention the 2852552562th repetition of the mimimimi violence against civilians statement and how every debate has its own fender buzzwords

what the fuck is the "centralist narrative" supposed to mean even, not even catalan independence guys could make that up

so for the mentally challenged people once again
one-sided violations of a democratically approved constitution are not how things are working in civilised countries, in your one world antifa shithole fantasy maybe, but not in the real world

well, putin and erdogan are also just enforcing the rule of law based on democratically approved constitutions when they arrest political opposition and beat up non-violent protesters...
and i'll repeat what i already said concerning this: spain is NOT quite as bad, but their treatment of catalonia is certainly not up to the standard of western democracies - not just their handling of the referendum, but also their refusal to create a realistic path to self-determination.

they are not
just how deranged must a person be to make such a wrong statement in yet another ridiculous attempt to make a point

is that really all?

its weird, but western democracies including germany have supported



fixed

This post was edited by ampoo on Mar 28 2018 05:09am

https://news.sky.com/story/mother-quyen-ngoc-nguyen-tortured-and-set-on-fire-by-evil-killers-stephen-unwin-and-william-mcfall-11306673

This is the one of the most sickening murders in the UK I've read about since James Bulger. When we're out of the EU I think there will be a serious discussion to be had on bringing back the death penalty. There is no law by the EU banning countries from executing people outside of wartime, however their formal condemnation of the death penalty in conjunction with the lengthy appeals processes allowed through the ECJ/ECHR make it pretty much impossible to do it.

Such an awkward thing to look forward to. I'll enjoy the barbaric discussion though.
We might actually be going on a far more sinister path. Help with suicide, possibly for life long inmates. Now that's a discussion !

This post was edited by Knoppie on Mar 28 2018 04:19pm

thats exactly what happens when you give murderers a "second chance"
its absolutely disgusting, even without death penalty its the duty of the state to lock them away forever