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Mar 31 2023 06:48pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 31 2023 08:45pm)
WTF are you talking about?


My bad, wasn't public, but documents and diplomatic cables revealed 100% make the understanding clear as day.
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Mar 31 2023 07:05pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 1 Apr 2023 02:25)
Those countries joining meant more economic stimulus pumped into them (especially at economically depressed time) and it added insurance to them but no, that's not the only reason why NATO accepted them. NATO which in reality is dominated by the US wanted to grow it's influence and fold more countries under it's military dominion.

What was the point for NATO then in adding members which meant more territory to defend if they were also an economic burden? And it's not like Poland or other Eastern European NATO members are particularly rich in natural resources. Or provided us with a beachhead thousands of kilometers away from our own territory like Japan and South Korea. You're basically arguing that NATO/the US wanted to grow its dominion for the sake of adding territory, irrespective of the actual economic or geostrategic value of this new territory.

Also, why do you think Eastern Europe was so economically depressed after the fall of the Iron Curtain? Could it be that 50-80 years of Russian rule had seen these countries fall behind the economic and technological development of the first world and triggered a massive, acute economic crisis toward the late 80s/early 90s? And could it be that this experience is yet another reason why those Eastern European countries are so adamant in their desire to never have to live under the thumb of the Russians ever again? And could it be that the protective umbrella of NATO was the only option for these small- to mid-sized countries to defend their sovereignty if/when Russian tanks come to subjugate them once again?


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This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 31 2023 07:11pm
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Mar 31 2023 07:22pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 31 2023 09:05pm)
What was the point for NATO then in adding members which meant more territory to defend if they were also an economic burden? And it's not like Poland or other Eastern European NATO members are particularly rich in natural resources. Or provided us with a beachhead thousands of kilometers away from our own territory like Japan and South Korea. You're basically arguing that NATO/the US wanted to grow its dominion for the sake of adding territory, irrespective of the actual economic or geostrategic value of this new territory.

Also, why do you think Eastern Europe was so economically depressed after the fall of the Iron Curtain? Could it be that 50-80 years of Russian rule had seen these countries fall behind the economic and technological development of the first world and triggered a massive, acute economic crisis toward the late 80s/early 90s? And could it be that this experience is yet another reason why those Eastern European countries are so adamant in their desire to never have to live under the thumb of the Russians ever again? And could it be that the protective umbrella of NATO was the only option for these small- to mid-sized countries to defend their sovereignty if/when Russian tanks come to subjugate them once again?


Mate literally almost all empires look to grow both territorially and men wise. If you dominate a military alliance, there is a benefit to have another ~50-100 million where to draw potential future soldiers, more land for the enemy to have to get through in case of attack, etc. It's not just land. It's dominion of that countries military pacts, intelligence, political leanings, etc. In the 21th century that is the best way to hold an empire not have thousands of soldiers in foreign lands against the local populace will.

And eastern Europe was a mess not because of Russia solely lol, but because of the trash economic system being communism. You pretend as if all communists were all Russian overlords when it was local communists that fumbled national economies all over eastern Europe. Even in Russia today, most are probably happy communism is gone and people can prosper.


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Mar 31 2023 07:27pm
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ 1 Apr 2023 02:29)
They joined a military alliance that includes Germany lol...A military alliance which specifically told the Russians they would not expand eastward, because the Russians would feel threatened by that.


You have hallucinations. Hopefully it will be much more simple with Muscovy.
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Mar 31 2023 07:49pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 31 2023 10:05pm)
What was the point for NATO then in adding members which meant more territory to defend if they were also an economic burden? And it's not like Poland or other Eastern European NATO members are particularly rich in natural resources. Or provided us with a beachhead thousands of kilometers away from our own territory like Japan and South Korea. You're basically arguing that NATO/the US wanted to grow its dominion for the sake of adding territory, irrespective of the actual economic or geostrategic value of this new territory.


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14650040802578658

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