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#4571
Mar 31 2023 06:25pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 31 2023 08:17pm)
NATO accepted the Eastern European members because those countries desperately WANTED to join NATO. The Poles, Romanians, and even many Ukrainians, always knew that it was only a matter of time until Russia would be reinvigorated and coming to restore its lost empire.


Those countries joining meant more economic stimulus pumped into them (especially at economically depressed time) and it added insurance to them but no, that's not the only reason why NATO accepted them. NATO which in reality is dominated by the US wanted to grow it's influence and fold more countries under it's military dominion.
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#4572
Mar 31 2023 06:29pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 31 2023 09:17pm)
NATO accepted the Eastern European members because those countries desperately WANTED to join NATO. The Poles, Romanians, and even many Ukrainians, always knew that it was only a matter of time until Russia would be reinvigorated and coming to restore its lost empire.


They joined a military alliance that includes Germany lol...A military alliance which specifically told the Russians they would not expand eastward, because the Russians would feel threatened by that.
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#4573
Mar 31 2023 06:31pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 31 2023 09:24pm)
The US was okay with leaving ex-Soviet States entirely in Russia's influence after we just won the Cold War? Could you post some evidence of that?

Even if it were true, it would be subject to whatever administration was in power, which the Russians would have understood. We don't have leaders for life like Putin.

Nations joined the EU and NATO because they wanted freedom, prosperity, and security. They could obviously look at a weakened Russia, which nevertheless had a stockpile of nuclear weapons, and be concerned about security.

There's something to be said about US/Western security policy working with the objections of the Russians. If there was a real pursuit for Ukraine to join NATO, I'd at least understand the talking point, but they hadn't even joined the EU yet. This invasion was Putin trying to reclaim the great historical Russian empire in his head, because he knew that dream was dying. But it's already dead.


Lol this is your brain on propaganda.
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#4574
Mar 31 2023 06:31pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 31 2023 08:24pm)
The US was okay with leaving ex-Soviet States entirely in Russia's influence after we just won the Cold War? Could you post some evidence of that?

Even if it were true,it would be subject to whatever administration was in power, which the Russians would have understood. We don't have leaders for life like Putin.

Nations joined the EU and NATO because they wanted freedom, prosperity, and security. They could obviously look at a weakened Russia, which nevertheless had a stockpile of nuclear weapons, and be concerned about security.

There's something to be said about US/Western security policy working with the objections of the Russians. If there was a real pursuit for Ukraine to join NATO, I'd at least understand the talking point, but they hadn't even joined the EU yet. This invasion was Putin trying to reclaim the great historical Russian empire in his head, because he knew that dream was dying. But it's already dead.


"Not one inch eastward"

If this is the case then countries both friendly and unfriendly shouldn't ever take us for our word and we shouldn't expect them to behave in a stable way. Being duplicitous and chalking it up to well it wasn't my administration is pretty shit foreign policy.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Mar 31 2023 06:32pm
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#4575
Mar 31 2023 06:33pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 31 2023 08:31pm)
"Not one inch eastward"

If this is the case then countries both friendly and unfriendly shouldn't ever take us for our word and we shouldn't expect them to behave in a stable way.


By that logic Trump shouldn't have left the Iran deal because it hurt our credibility. And this supposed "deal" wasn't even written on paper, and it's been contested by people in the room.
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#4576
Mar 31 2023 06:33pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 31 2023 09:33pm)
By that logic Trump shouldn't have left the Iran deal because it hurt our credibility. And this supposed "deal" wasn't even written on paper, and it's been contested by people in the room.


Lol very relevant
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#4577
Mar 31 2023 06:38pm
Also, to be historically accurate, this supposed "not one inch eastward" incident happened before the Soviet Union fell.

This all just sounds like angry pro-Russian sentiment because they lost the Cold War and we won it.

This post was edited by IceMage on Mar 31 2023 06:38pm
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#4578
Mar 31 2023 06:42pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 31 2023 08:33pm)
By that logic Trump shouldn't have left the Iran deal because it hurt our credibility. And this supposed "deal" wasn't even written on paper, and it's been contested by people in the room.


If it it wasn't a mutual understanding it wouldn't have been said out loud with the whole worlds cameras on it. I'm not sure how to feel about Trump ripping up the Iran deal tbh. It's not an issue I feel strongly about and I see arguments worth merit on both sides.

Fact of the matter though, it did strengthen our relationships with key allies like Israel and SA only for the current idiot president to completely reverse that political capital, to the point where the Saudis literally joined China's security bloc. This president is a colossal failure at foreign policy. How does one of our key allies join a China-led security bloc?

Quote
DUBAI—Saudi Arabia is strengthening its commercial and security ties with China, as U.S. influence wanes in the Middle East region.

The Saudi government approved partial membership in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a political and security bloc that includes China, Russia and India, the Saudi state news agency reported Wednesday. The decision comes ahead of a May meeting of foreign ministers from the regional grouping, where Iran recently gained full member status.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-arabia-strengthens-relations-with-china-amid-strained-u-s-ties-c5819114
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#4579
Mar 31 2023 06:43pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 31 2023 09:38pm)
Also, to be historically accurate, this supposed "not one inch eastward" incident happened before the Soviet Union fell.


"Supposed"
You haven't even figured that out yet?

Out of your depth lol

I do like the "we promised the Soviet Union not Russia" talking point though. Besides the fact that geopolitics doesn't really work like that, shouldn't that have meant the dissolution of NATO as well? The defensive alliance that was built to defend against...hmm..who was it again?
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#4580
Mar 31 2023 06:45pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 31 2023 08:42pm)
If it it wasn't a mutual understanding it wouldn't have been said out loud with the whole worlds cameras on it.


WTF are you talking about?
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