Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jun 6 2021 01:56pm)

That's a really inadequate zero-sum perspective. We can assume blacks to be just as talented and hard-working as whites, so including blacks into the economy and society should have grown the economy and wealth about proportionally. The pie would have to be shared among more people, but also grow in size. It's highly non-trivial to calculate which effect would have been larger.



Yes, certain low IQ/low skill whites would have been worse off if they had to compete, but the higher education whites would have benefitted from society tapping into the potential of blacks. All whites would also have benefitted from a more equal society, better race relations, less crime and government spending on police and prisons, and so on. For those unfit for meritocratic competition, the downsides of racial integration would presumably have prevailed, but for everyone else, Jim Crow was a net negative.


At the end of the day, the diverging economic development of the antebellum South and North prove that slavery or slavery-adjacent discrimination does not create sustainable wealth. In the long run, slavery or massive racial discrimination leaves everyone worse off except for a tiny few rich elites and a few low ability individuals from the privileged group.

Jim Crow did not make working- and middle-class whites rich, it made (almost) all of America poorer.

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Jun 6 2021 02:25pm)

my ancestors as well as those of americans from europe were the subject of serfdom and oppression from the catholic church in the middle ages

where is our fucking money?

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Jun 6 2021 12:25pm)

my ancestors as well as those of americans from europe were the subject of serfdom and oppression from the catholic church in the middle ages

where is our fucking money?

Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 6 2021 09:27pm)

Ask the royals and their descendants.

The royal families have an absolutely obscene level of wealth that is hidden from the rest of the population. You should probably be fighting for the Royals to be dissolve and their assets returned to the people

Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 6 2021 03:21pm)

I am as white as they come. Sorry bro.

Quote (Thor123422 @ 6 Jun 2021 21:24)

My position doesn't require that the situation be zero-sum. Black people have still massively contributed, but the fruits of their contribution have overwhelmingly gone two white people as the black businesses were systematically targeted and they were forced into worse conditions despite offering just as much as their white counterparts. So in fact I don't think the situation is zero sum, I think that by forcing certain races to lower stations it actively pushed other races to higher stations.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jun 6 2021 02:57pm)

Fair enough; I didnt explain my argument thoroughly enough: imho, the spoils of black exploitation have disproportionately gone to white elites, with most working- and middle-class whites only benefitting very marginally. Since this discrimination came with opportunity costs, like leaving a lot of human potential untapped, creating a less equal and peaceful society, requiring higher spending on the police, prisons and so on, these marginal gains that whites between the ~10th and 95th percentile derived from black discrimination are offset by the overall cost that the American society incurred from this system.

In any case, the generality of your statement, namely that all whites have actively benefitted from the discrimination of blacks, clearly doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Btw, you haven't elaborated on your claim that I allegedly am a textbook example of someone who changes his positions in response to peer or media influence.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jun 6 2021 03:14pm)

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jun 6 2021 03:14pm)