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Jun 11 2020 03:40pm
Quote (thundercock @ Jun 11 2020 04:49pm)
Andrew Johnson said that death was not a sufficient punishment for these people. Another quote from him: “treason is the highest crime known in the catalogue of crimes ... treason must be made odious and traitors must be punished.” Obviously, Andrew Johnson doesn't speak for everyone, but given that he was from Tennessee, I find it hard to disagree with his stance.

Like I said, the Lost Cause narrative is fucking pervasive in America. They weren't foreign in the sense that they were a different culture but they were undoubtedly a separate entity and enemies of the United States

What do you mean by "present form?" We didn't have all 50 states until the mid 1900s but at the same time we've had the Constitution since the late 1780s. We've had multiple amendments since the 15th amendment which was a result of the Civil War.


Andrew Johnson was a complete boor.

Of course it's pervasive, the North invaded and completely destroyed the South's economy, prosperity, and way of life. Upwards of 10% of their manpower was dead at war's end. The Lost Cause represents a rosy, golden, and dishonest reflection of the pre-war South, but all cultural recollections (including our own) tend to be that way.

I mean that the power of the federal government vis-a-vis the states was in flux for much of the country's early history, and was only decided with the complete victory of the North over the South. We see ourselves as one and indivisible today, but the perception at the time was far different.
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Jun 11 2020 06:55pm


Damn. And here I was thinking this was a Trump 2020 topic. Silly me.
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Jun 11 2020 07:14pm
CHAZ

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Jun 12 2020 09:07am
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/11/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-trump.html

Quote
SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea on Friday said that two years of diplomacy with President Trump had “faded away into a dark nightmare,” and vowed to increase its nuclear weapons capabilities.

“Even a slim ray of optimism for peace and prosperity on the Korean Peninsula has faded away into a dark nightmare,” the country’s foreign minister, Ri Son-gwon, said in a statement on Friday marking the second anniversary of a historic summit meeting between Mr. Trump and the North’s leader, Kim Jong-un.

When Mr. Kim and Mr. Trump met in Singapore on June 12, 2018, they signed a vaguely worded agreement to improve ties between their nations and work toward “complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”

But bilateral ties have since deteriorated, especially after the two leaders’ second meeting, held in Vietnam in February 2019, ended without agreement on how to dismantle the North’s nuclear weapons program and when to ease sanctions against the North.

Although Washington continues to make “nonsensical remarks that the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula is still a secure goal of the United States,” North Korea’s strategic goal is “to build up a more reliable force to cope with the long-term military threats from the U.S.,” Mr. Ri said​ on Friday​.


Too much winning.
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Jun 12 2020 09:30am
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 12 2020 10:07am)


Almost like Trump is a shitty negotiator and has failed at literally every attempt at negotiating since he took office. (Spoiler: The Art of the Deal was written by a ghost-writer so everybody who isn't a Trump cultist already knew this)

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jun 12 2020 09:31am
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Jun 12 2020 11:16am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Jun 12 2020 11:30am)
Almost like Trump is a shitty negotiator and has failed at literally every attempt at negotiating since he took office. (Spoiler: The Art of the Deal was written by a ghost-writer so everybody who isn't a Trump cultist already knew this)


This is a really poor criticism of Trump insofar as it relates to North Korea. Who exactly has had success negotiating with them? At the end of the day, they responded positively to American outreach but there was no agreement to be had.
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Jun 12 2020 11:22am
Quote (bogie160 @ 12 Jun 2020 13:16)
This is a really poor criticism of Trump insofar as it relates to North Korea. Who exactly has had success negotiating with them? At the end of the day, they responded positively to American outreach but there was no agreement to be had.

no one, but anti-American wannabe thugs like icepeon and little fella thor root for North Korea because they’re still in denial about the 2016 election

e: case in point little fella thor doesn’t even care about the First Step Act bipartisan legislation (which requires negotiation) because he’s scared of minorities that Joe Biden locked up resuming their lives outside of prison

This post was edited by excellence on Jun 12 2020 11:24am
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Jun 12 2020 11:29am
Quote (IceMage @ Jun 12 2020 08:07am)


It's unfortunate because it was one of the times where I thought Trump was correct. I guess it was all for show.
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Jun 12 2020 11:39am
I still think that it was worthwhile to try to bring NK to the negotiation table and see if there can be diplomatic progress. It was just always unrealistic that they would ever, under any circumstances, give up their nukes. If that's what you expected coming out of these negotiations, you were setting yourself up for disappointment. However, the fact that he situation is so tricky and gridlocked means that the U.S. team really needed to have a proper plan going into these negotiations if they hoped to achieve more than just a photo op for the president.

tldr: it was indeed an opportunity, albeit a small one - but like so many other opportunities in this administration, it got squandered by incompetence and a lack of preparation.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jun 12 2020 11:40am
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Jun 12 2020 12:21pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jun 12 2020 12:16pm)
This is a really poor criticism of Trump insofar as it relates to North Korea. Who exactly has had success negotiating with them? At the end of the day, they responded positively to American outreach but there was no agreement to be had.


Its not about North Korea specifically. As I said, hes failed everywhere.

And he bragged about being successful and hos supoorters on this forum hailed NK as a success so I see it as a fair point of criticism.
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