Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2020 12:37am)

Yeah, no, I dont buy that. If polls consistently showed Trump to be a liability for the GOP and to stand no chance at reelection, they would never have impeached him. Btw, temporal risk goes both ways, in this scenario, Trump's approval could just as well erode even further and hand Democrats a supermajority à la what happened in 2006->2008.




So?! I always thought you were a principled institutionalist and would always defend the way institutions work over short-term political considerations.




Lol!

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 28 Jan 2020 09:37)

Sure, Trump lied when he said he wants Bolton to testify, and that his phone call was perfect.

And yes, of course it is a very bad look for Trump and his administration to block a key witness who wants to testify. I never disagreed that it is politically savvy for Democrats to now call for his testimony. My point is that this is dishonest flipflopping by the Democrats: they considered the evidence sufficient to impeach Trump even without Bolton's testimony, but now, his testimony has all of a sudden become oh-so important and indispensable.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 28 Jan 2020 09:37)

Sure. But that's not how Democrats are framing this process for the public. They arent honest and say "we impeach him because he gave us an opening to do so and we expect to gain political profit out of this process". Instead they talk about morals, norms, an innocent ally which was pressured, about "protecting the country and the integrity of the upcoming election".

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2020 12:08am)

Strange that the House Dems didnt feel the need to have him testify to go through with their impeachment, isnt it?


This is the impeachment timeline:

1.: Pelosi settles on impeachment, in order to placate the far-left parts of her caucus and to inflict political damage on Trump and GOP senators.
2.: The administration refuses to cooperate with the inquiry.
3.: The Democrats realize that forcing the witnesses to testify would come with lengthy battles in court and therefore endanger the political goals of their impeachment proceedings.
4.: Due to this political calculus, the House Democrats make a deliberate decision to go ahead without testimony from most key witnesses.
5.: To sell this approach to the American public, they frame it as "Trump is an imminent danger to the country, he wants to do spooky stuff to mess with the upcoming election", and that he therefore has to be removed from office ASAP.
6.: When McConnell threatens to shut the Senate trial down immediately, Pelosi and her Democrats see their political goals in danger, so Pelosi doesnt hand over the articles of impeachment. For over a month. After they had just used "Trump must be removed ASAP" as a justification for their rushed vote in the House.
7.: After Pelosi realizes that she has no real leverage, she begrudgingly hands over the articles of impeachment without getting substantial concessions from McConnell. Due to internal pressure from vulnerable GOP senators up for reelection, McConnell decides to hold a proper trial nonetheless.
8.: The scorned Bolton is out for blood and lets the public know that he would love to testify against the boss who fired him.
9.: Democrats realize how damaging this testimony could potentially be for Trump. Their political calculus does a 180° and they now insist that additional witnesses must be heard. They hope the public doesnt realize how this stance is a complete contradiction of their rushed impeachment process in the House, where they deliberately skipped most key witnesses.

Quote (Skinned @ 28 Jan 2020 13:03)

That is a timeline. Since you are very incapable of being objective it is a timeline. A timeline from a partisan who cannot see past his own point of view.

Most Americans believe impeachment began when a crime occurred.

From one partisan to another, takes one to know one.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2020 08:50am)

My timeline refers to the political side/the congress side of things.

Since you accuse me of being an unobjective partisan, can you point me to any item or point on my list where you disagree?
In general, it's interesting that I caught a lot of flak this morning from the usual suspects like fender, sauci and thundercock, yet no one has given any concrete rebuttal to my little list.

Quote (Skinned @ 28 Jan 2020 15:36)

List has a bunch of stupid opinions projected into it; my complaint.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2020 01:15am)

My point wasnt about House Democrats asking Bolton to testify, or Bolton's willingness to testify. It was about the administration's constitutional right to invoke executive privilege to prevent Bolton from testifying, and how the Democrats could and should have fought this in court. But they didnt because it would have been politically disadvantageous. Now, a few weeks later, after their political calculus has flipped around, they call wolf.