actually, i think our "feelings" about catalan secession and respecting the brexit referendum actually DO match. the difference is that i do NOT condone violence against civilians just because i disagree with their opinion, and you DO, nigel...

So what would you have the Spanish police do? "What you're doing is illegal catalans." *shoos the thousands of angry gathered calatans*.

Don't think it would work some how. Sometimes violence is necessary if you want to maintain peace and law. A few bruises to avoid nationwide anarchy? Small price to pay I'm afraid.

nationwide anarchy? slippery slope much? prior to this escalation there possibly wasn't even a majority in catalonia that supported independence...

also, they could have done the same thing they did several times before: let them have their vote and peaceful protest and go home again in the evening, reiterate what has always been their stance (that it was non-binding and unconstitutional), and just make sure it stays peaceful.

instead the supreme court ordered to physically prevent it, so they escalate the conflict, assault peaceful civilians, and make political arrests of independence leaders based on blown up charges - in good old fascist tradition.

to portray this violence as "necessary in order to maintain peace and law" just demonstrates how little you know about this, or how much you're willing to bend the truth in order to make the facts fit your narrative...

There still isn't, based on the results of the december elections. In fact, after this escalation, in these last elections, the separatist parties gained less percentage of the votes (and 2 seats less in parliamente) than what they got in the 2015 elections. And that's considering that many people who vote separatists are just nationalists that want to pressure the national government for concessions, or because they simply want Cataonia to have the power to hold its own referenda, not because they support separatism. A majority of people wanting independence is still far from happening, and this is something that several separatist leaders have no trouble admitting (they push for the right to hold referenda so that they can hold another one in a future where there might actually be such a majority... which is their goal, and they admit that their mission is to try to create a separatist majority in the future).



1. So yeah, the Supreme Court should just say "so you spent millions of public funds to stage an illegal referendum? OK, that's perfectly fine, you're free to go and do it again whenever you want! Don't forget to keep privatizing public goods and closing hospitals so you can save up the money for this".
2. And again, the separatist government was illegally using the personal information of the citizens of Catalonia to create a census. Not to mention that organizations were encouraging to use the census to make lists of people who weren't voting.

fender aka heinrich gets smashed once again

dont be so harsh guys

i love his fake news "eight decades" argument until getting rekt by an actual spaniard
oh boy

This post was edited by ampoo on Mar 27 2018 10:08am

stop the presses! someone made an honest mistake, was made aware of it, immediately admitted they were wrong and set the record straight - 'hurr durr... fAke NeWs!'
that's the 'standard' of people who get regularly called out for being blatantly wrong and INTENTIONALLY dishonest, but just act like it never happened and move on to the next alternative fact. hilarious...



holy centralist propaganda, the seizure of catalan finances by the madrid government to prevent said misuse has cost multiple times of what they ALLEGED catalonia illegally used to fund the referendum - but ofc the money itself was never actually the issue, it was about finding reasons to arrest political opposition. not that the logic of 'the only way of preventing votes in the future is to assault the people peacefully participating' makes any sense to begin with.

concerning majorities and minorities we can't actually know how it currently is in catalonia considering the background of the recent elections, but i would not at all be surprised if there still is no true majority for it. anyway, thanks for supporting my point that the 'nationwide anarchy' argument in order to justify the authoritarian crackdown has no merit whatsoever...

This post was edited by fender on Mar 27 2018 10:24am

fender aka heinrich von goebbels is just carrying out his ancestor joseph’s dream of meddling in foreign nations’ affairs

heinrich (descendant of joseph) ranting on and on about Spain is hilarious. what was he booted out of there too like when he tried to get a visa to the USA?? (which was rejected due to his history of violent and bigoted tendencies)

This post was edited by excellence on Mar 27 2018 10:29am

honest mistake, yeah right as if you had no idea the constitution votes were not that long ago

nice try fake news merchant

that's why it was the very first thing i addressed in my reply, obviously embarrassed about my stupid mistake...

if that is the standard for "fake news" these days, it's no wonder that term has become completely meaningless when the authoritarian right wing, that's ACTUALLY peddling lies and misinformation like no one else before, uses it to delegitimise FACTS and critical media that hurt their feelings... classic projection really.

Zark's argument is essentially that Catalan agreed to a constitution so can never leave unless the Spanish government allows it through a vote of their own. The logical extrapolation of this is that no signed treaties can be reneged on without big brother's approval. Scotland agreed to be part of the UK in the past and a referendum was still legally granted for Scottish self determination without the UK government or the UK as a whole voting on it. We held a referendum on being a part of the EU in 2016, which funnily enough was borne of a 1975 referendum that happened around the time the Spanish constitution was crafted - things changed for us since then and I imagine that's the same for the people of Catalan.

The referendum was illegal but repeated attempts of Catalonia to have a legal referendum granted by the Spanish government were refused. What did you really expect? Significant economic regional powers, especially those with a strong sense of tradition and history, will eventually determine their own fates, what's happening now is delaying the inevitable.

This post was edited by dro94 on Mar 27 2018 11:22am