It's basically unproductive.

pride cometh before the fall.

but... but that wasnt real communism!

so instead of making that thread you said you would, trying to formulate your criticisms of the communist ideology in a somewhat objective and constructive way, you keep making those intellectually dishonest posts, trying to portray the worst aspects of failed regimes as representative of the ideology as such, perpetuating the red scare tactics that were instrumental in turning the US into a de facto oligarchy for example.

that's about as honest as showing pictures of dead children in sweatshops / or dead children in one of the warzones that corporate owned politicians lied about, in order to invade them for oil and lucrative military contracts / or dead children due to lack of healthcare in late stage capitalist america... and pretending those things are somehow representative of "capitalism".

why do you love dead children so much? how do you prefer dead children over sorting cabbages for a day each year? see how stupid that kind of "criticism" is?

Funny how you like to pretend that ALL the time.





I'll take the word of a horrible human being to tell me what communism is all about

This post was edited by WiziLiCe on Apr 11 2021 07:48am

Cool communism must only be like this and it's a recent document (only 50 years old)

???

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=84785378&f=119

that's simply not true. opposing the downsides of late stage capitalism is not the same as dismissing capitalism as a valid approach in general.

in fact, i have consistently maintained my position that the best systems are multi party democracies with a healthy mix of capitalist and socialist elements, allowing for competition, variety, and innovation, but also avoiding damaging deregulation, monopolisation, and exploitation through government control (kept in check by term limits, elements of direct democratic participation, exclusion of corporate influence), and people empowerment through collective bargaining and votes that matter.

you won't find a single post of me supporting planned economies, or the soviet union. opposing the simplistic red scare tactics that were used to disenfranchise and disempower america's working class for example, doesn't mean rejecting capitalism altogether.

it's hilarious that you responded to a post criticising dishonesty and lack of nuance, by making shitty accusations that lack nuance and honesty, lol.



my bad. i genuinely did not see the thread at the time and (wrongly) assumed you never made it. apologies.

that said, it's not really what i suggested anyway, is it? pretty sure i proposed an objectively framed, good faith debate about the ideology, and not you posting someone else's analysis of a specific part of marx's work, then making a whole bunch of loaded assumptions, and ultimately not even being able to engage with the serious responses you got (from thor and plague in that case).

as for this thread, my criticism of your simplistic and biased approach remains - minus the accusation of you not making that thread ofc. you're willing to judge "communism" as a whole by its worst outcomes and examples - why not do the same for "capitalism"?

the exploitation piece is what i was most interested in as it seems to be the foundation of the view that workers are getting a raw deal in the current system
there was nothing to engage as i don't disagree with the criticisms of capitalism that were raised and no argument was offered on how exploitation isn't happening within a communist system. the threads still open so if you feel the scenario i described doesn't adequately represent the complexities of communism and why workers aren't being exploited feel free to point out what's wrong with it

personally i take into consideration the best and worst outcomes in judging ideologies which means sweatshops and diamond mines are perfectly valid criticisms of capitalism but if you take the best and worst of capitalism and communism historically i do not see why any rational person would have such a hard on for communism - yet they exist in large numbers

socialism/communism: everybody is poor except a few party members

capitalism: there is only a handful of losers, everyone else comes out lightyears ahead compared to the socialist slave class

after dozens of millions of deaths, gulags, concentration camps, famines and building walls to keep people in, this discussion still exists