2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils,
and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.


the kingdom of heaven is a measure of leaven, 4 bythy p-h arm-akeia were all nations deceived.

https://ibb.co/JK6VY56



heaven and earth shall pass, but my words shall not pass. beware of the leaven.

This post was edited by lodd222 on Sep 26 2023 01:22pm

Thats entirely not the point. Damn....thats rough

Let me try it this way:

If you decide something tomorrow and god knew how you would choose an eternity ago, did you really decide? Did you have a choice? Tell me in your own words how you had a choice.

This post was edited by Modulok2405 on Sep 26 2023 01:18pm

is it? if your just an 'evolved creature wouldnt you just be a slave to what ever random chemical reactions in your brain tell you what to think/do ?



yes you can?
Is it wrong to question God?
https://www.gotquestions.org/question-God.html

excerpt:
At issue is not whether we should question God, but in what manner—and for what reason—we question Him. To question God is not in itself wrong. The prophet Habakkuk queried God concerning the timing and agency of His plan. Rather than rebuke Habakkuk for his questions, God patiently answered, and the prophet ended his book with a song of praise to the Lord.

at what point does knowing some one end their free will


now sense we are here? how bout this question. does God (if there is one as we understand who he is?) himself have free will.

Darwin’s Horrid Doubt: Why Monkey Brains Troubled the Great Man of Science
Can random accumulations of particles or close relatives of monkey brains produce reliable, rational thought? Even today’s physicalist scientists, when honest, share Darwin’s “horrid doubt.”
https://medium.com/science-and-philosophy/darwins-horrid-doubt-why-monkey-brains-troubled-the-great-man-of-science-e77c954e9019

Alright so you don't have free will. Since I know what your decision will be in the end you have no choice in the matter. I am going to decide for you what the topic of debate is going to be and since you don't have any free will, you are going to participate.

We are going to discuss and debate how the Genealogy of Jesus proves that He is the Messiah. Let's start with Matthew 1 and Luke 3.

Matthew 1:1-17

The Genealogy of Jesus the Messiah

1 This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,

Isaac the father of Jacob,

Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,

3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,

Perez the father of Hezron,

Hezron the father of Ram,

4 Ram the father of Amminadab,

Amminadab the father of Nahshon,

Nahshon the father of Salmon,

5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,

Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,

Obed the father of Jesse,

6 and Jesse the father of King David.

David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,

7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,

Rehoboam the father of Abijah,

Abijah the father of Asa,

8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,

Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,

Jehoram the father of Uzziah,

9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,

Jotham the father of Ahaz,

Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,

10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,

Manasseh the father of Amon,

Amon the father of Josiah,

11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.

12 After the exile to Babylon:

Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,

Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,

13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,

Abihud the father of Eliakim,

Eliakim the father of Azor,

14 Azor the father of Zadok,

Zadok the father of Akim,

Akim the father of Elihud,

15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,

Eleazar the father of Matthan,

Matthan the father of Jacob,

16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.


Now for Luke 3:21-38

The Baptism and Genealogy of Jesus

21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,

the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,

the son of Levi, the son of Melki,

the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,

25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,

the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,

the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath,

the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,

the son of Josek, the son of Joda,

27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,

the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,

the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melki,

the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,

the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,

29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer,

the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,

the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon,

the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,

the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,

31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna,

the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,

the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse,

the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,

the son of Salmon,[d] the son of Nahshon,

33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,

the son of Hezron, the son of Perez,

the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob,

the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,

the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,

35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu,

the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,

the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan,

the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,

the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,

37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,

the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,

the son of Kenan, 38 the son of Enosh,

the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

Probably, yeah. This is a very interesting topic, but the answers to it - in both directions - are more philosophical than anything else.

Free Will might be a total illusion, there is no way to test it. At least not right now.

All I said was, that the existence of an omnipotent god would answer that question with a clear and undistputed No.

So IF god exists and is in fact all-knowing than he would be responsable for ALL actions mankind has ever taken.
In that sense the existence of god wouldnt add purpose, which is what many claim god does, give life purpose, he would immediately take every bit of purpose away from us. He would make us useless puppets with a predetermined life and would probably jerk off to all the wars, illnesses and famines we experience on a daily basis here on earth.

God would have free will I suppose? An omnipotent being should be able to decide what it does, yeah. Omnipotent includes that to my understanding. Correct me if I am wrong.

"Knowing" someone doesnt end free will. We just use the term losely.
What "ends" free will is when whatever you do next is already predetermined.

Knowing your sister will laugh in a second is not the same as really KNOWING. She could die the next milisecond to a stroke, right?
So you dont know, you are just sure. You dont know what happens in the future.
But god would know. He could only know something if its predetermined. Do no free will.

This post was edited by Modulok2405 on Sep 27 2023 09:36am

I dont know if I have free will. Never said I have. Its a question I cant answer and I never said I could.

just because it is known what you will do doesnt mean your made to do it



to what degree of 'knowing ends free will?