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#441
Mar 29 2019 01:48pm
Quote (PlasmaSnake101 @ Mar 29 2019 02:36pm)
Every American should have stood cheering when Trump said "We got a lot of killers...what you think our country's so innocent". It reflects a sentiment of acknowledging and disavowing the vicious policy of unjustified wars, funding conflict across the globe and carrying out political assassinations. Trump is more dovish than most modern presidents. You can see he really doesn't want to spread conflict (unless his Israel fetishism and Jared tell him to). You want to know who supports war? Everyone. Just look at the response to wanting to engage in the complete withdrawal of a nation. Once the Americans move in, they don't move out.

As for believing Putin before our intel agencies, shit, I would too. Our intel agencies led us into the Iraq War. I'm sick of everyone lining up to blow 'em. They're run by fuck ups. I think that's fair to acknowledge. 4,000+ dead Americans. 30,000+ wounded. 183,249 – 205,785 deaths. Thank you American Intelligence Agencies. I wouldn't ask those rats for the time of day. Maybe they're too busy spying on Americans without warrants to not destabilize entire global region, create surges in terrorism, the migrant crisis, etc, etc.


Trump's instinct is to pull out of conflicts but then John W Bolton drags out the process and gets Trump to change his mind in the end.
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#442
Mar 29 2019 01:51pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 29 2019 11:48am)
Trump's instinct is to pull out of conflicts but then John W Bolton drags out the process and gets Trump to change his mind in the end.


Another reason Trump is a major disappointment.
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#443
Mar 29 2019 01:55pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 29 Mar 2019 15:05)
Anyway now that the chips are settled, a quick perusing of posts in liberal havens on various social media platforms / TV shows over the past few days has shown me that the #1 response to the Mueller Report is... denialism.
By far the most common and agreed upon reaction is people insisting that the Mueller Report doesn't actually say there's no collusion and that Barr's summary is false and we still need to see the real thing (except hedging their bets in case the real thing doesn't prove it either)

even if the full report was somehow released without a single redaction in it at all, they'll say the report was 'hacked by russia' and default back to the 'Mueller is a republican we cant trust scum like him' tired line.

this is the privilege of being a privileged lefty: no matter how wrong you are (and it is a frequent event) you never have to apologize or admit fault: just cry about 'the other side made me do something stupid' and move onto the next pearl-clutching rant (probably move back to Drumpf's taxes or Stormy/Avenatti or the Trump Hotel is illegal and people who cross the border without permission are not illegal thing)

This post was edited by excellence on Mar 29 2019 01:55pm
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#444
Mar 29 2019 02:01pm
Quote (PlasmaSnake101 @ Mar 29 2019 02:45pm)
Makes sense, an unredacted report would be irresponsible.


...and I believe also illegal.
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#445
Mar 29 2019 03:15pm
Quote (Santara @ 29 Mar 2019 21:01)
...and I believe also illegal.


certain grand jury information is by law forbidden from being made public. and of course info relating to intelligence methods and sources must be redacted to protect those sources.

normally, I'd also say that uncharged suspects should not be made public, which is a long-standing norm at the justice department. but in a case like this one, with such an overwhelming public interest into as much info as possible, the DoJ should make an exception.
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#446
Mar 29 2019 05:49pm
Quote (excellence @ Mar 29 2019 02:55pm)
even if the full report was somehow released without a single redaction in it at all, they'll say the report was 'hacked by russia' and default back to the 'Mueller is a republican we cant trust scum like him' tired line.

this is the privilege of being a privileged lefty: no matter how wrong you are (and it is a frequent event) you never have to apologize or admit fault: just cry about 'the other side made me do something stupid' and move onto the next pearl-clutching rant (probably move back to Drumpf's taxes or Stormy/Avenatti or the Trump Hotel is illegal and people who cross the border without permission are not illegal thing)

i'd like to see that full report, but there's no way we could see the full report.

i am very curious how mueller's 2 years were spent though. i am... "surprised" at the very least that this report is only around 400 pages.
it does not sound like mueller actually wrote a full report considering all that was done.

especially since this investigation was started on a very broad scope without any evidence of the main charge.
i think we need to send the IG again
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#447
Mar 29 2019 06:04pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 29 2019 04:15pm)
certain grand jury information is by law forbidden from being made public. and of course info relating to intelligence methods and sources must be redacted to protect those sources.

normally, I'd also say that uncharged suspects should not be made public, which is a long-standing norm at the justice department. but in a case like this one, with such an overwhelming public interest into as much info as possible, the DoJ should make an exception.


Grand jury information can be made public via a court order. See: Clinton and Nixon. House Republicans have already burned an FBI source, so while I care about sources/methods, there's a limit to that argument.

I couldn't agree with you more. If there's ever a situation where the public interest outweighs the normal policy of not speaking about uncharged individuals, it's this. Let's see what Mueller found.
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#448
Mar 29 2019 06:08pm
Quote (excellence @ Mar 29 2019 03:55pm)
even if the full report was somehow released without a single redaction in it at all, they'll say the report was 'hacked by russia' and default back to the 'Mueller is a republican we cant trust scum like him' tired line.

this is the privilege of being a privileged lefty: no matter how wrong you are (and it is a frequent event) you never have to apologize or admit fault: just cry about 'the other side made me do something stupid' and move onto the next pearl-clutching rant (probably move back to Drumpf's taxes or Stormy/Avenatti or the Trump Hotel is illegal and people who cross the border without permission are not illegal thing)




Yep, yep.
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#449
Mar 29 2019 06:14pm
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 29 2019 07:04pm)
Grand jury information can be made public via a court order. See: Clinton and Nixon. House Republicans have already burned an FBI source, so while I care about sources/methods, there's a limit to that argument.

I couldn't agree with you more. If there's ever a situation where the public interest outweighs the normal policy of not speaking about uncharged individuals, it's this. Let's see what Mueller found.

the clinton case wasn't one then huh?
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#450
Mar 29 2019 06:16pm
Quote (tagged4nothing @ Mar 29 2019 07:14pm)
the clinton case wasn't one then huh?


We had two high profile investigations involving a Clinton so you'll have to be a little more specific junior.
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