Quote (thesnipa @ 1 Dec 2020 16:28)

lastly, in 2015 when HRC fumbled the WV miner question, i said she was a fool. all she had to do was promise job replacement programs in areas already plundered by coal jobloss decades old to offset coal regulations. yes solar, wind, etc are the future. but we can direct where those future technologies are made with tax incentives. we dont need a solar panel plant in a NYC suburb, we need it in bumfuck WV. this type of conservative progressive clean energy could stop the Trump wing of disenfranchised blue collar workers in its tracks, but they're too snooty.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 1 2020 09:51am)

That's wishful thinking. The reality is that 1. solar panel factories will require less workers than coal mines, so that the total number of jobs goes down in case of a one-to-one replacement, and 2. the qualification and skillset required for solar panel jobs would be very different from those of a coal miner.

So you would promise these left-behind communities fancy new jobs which might (hopefully) materialize quite some years from now, which would be inaccessible to the displaced coal miners due to skillset mismatch, and which might also be out of reach for the children of the disgruntled coal miners because they require a too high level of formal qualification.


The reality simply is the following: when replacing coal with solar power, the true equivalent of the coal miner job moves to Bolivia or Chile where the lithium is mined, while new and different jobs are created in the U.S. On balance, this might even be a favorable tradeoff for the natioal economy, but it will inevitably fuck over the affected domestic coal workers, and denying this reality would be to delude oneself.

Quote (thesnipa @ 1 Dec 2020 16:57)

coal job loss didnt all happen over night. its not as if last year 500 people got canned and now we need 500 new jobs or everyone dies. im simply talking about bringing new jobs into targeted communities in the south, west, and rust belt. clean energy jobs are just the wrapping paper, tax incentives can bring all sorts of different industries in as a real present. and govt funded retraining programs are an idea as well.

in any case, whats the alternative? Democrats continue to cede territories that unite movements nationwide of disenfranchised workers to elected Trumps? They go back to coal and abandon their fringe Green Party Esque voters in general elections? Continue to take full credit for global trade deals that both parties endorsed while the GOP acts blameless for letting jobs disappear in their home districts?

maybe thats what they do, i just detest poor gamesmanship.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 1 2020 10:09am)

Oh, I support policies which aim to bring new jobs to left behind communities who really need them, don't get me wrong. I just dont think that these attempts would help those workers whose job is lost/outsourced/killed of for climate protection reasons in the near future, and thus do nothing to prevent them from turning into trumpy voters. Govt funded retraining programs will do fuck all for those low education 40+ y/o coal workers.

The alternative is clear imho: Democrats give up on these voters. WV and KY are already as ruby-red as it gets, not much more ground to lose there. They better focus on states like WI and PA, which are trending right but can still be kept from turning into full-blown maga-country.

Quote (thesnipa @ 1 Dec 2020 17:18)

base level assembly jobs typically require 1 single day of training before you're put on a line, then on the job training thereafter. the idea that highschool educated 60 IQ workers cant do assembly is categorically wrong. its a narrative issue, democrats from coastal elite communities dont want to be seen in these places.

and in any case, again, what is the alternative? these communities that are devastated just stay devastated? more rural fleeing? maybe thats the plan, but its a bad plan, not just for the country but for democrats.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 1 2020 10:30am)

Yes, of course. That's been the plan for 30, 40 years now. For decades, the Democratic party has pushed policies which fuck over rural blue-collar workers, and both its strategic choices and its messaging clearly indicate that they want to ignore these voters and communities altogether.

That's ultimately what all the talk about "coming demographic majority" or "metropolitan majority" as well as about court packing or adding states to the Senate boils down to: Democrats dont want those "bigoted and reactionary" WWC voters in their coalition anymore, they dont want to represent their interests anymore. And, most importantly, they want national politics to be in a place where these voters dont wield any political leverage anymore, where the direction of the nation can be chosen without any regard for these people and places. Which is also the reason why they are so furious about the Senate and the EC: these institutions empower small states and rural voters. The truth is that the vast majority of Democrats view rural America as nothing but a drag which is standing in the way of Progress™.

Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 1 2020 11:37am)

overall my reaction is give me a god damn break. for decades both parties have cheered on the outsourcing of rural american communities to bolster wall street bottom line profits and fill their election coffers with corporate donations.

the GOP comes along on a Trump wave and some pandering about caring about blue collar workers and then we get posts like this. they didnt give a flying fuck, they let it happen through GOP presidencies, senate and house control, and dozens of gubernatorial reigns.

so again, give me a fucking break man.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Dec 1 2020 10:55am)

Platforms are not static. Just because a party had x position 20 years ago doesn't mean them moving away from that position is invalidated because of the past.

Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 1 2020 08:28am)

1. by obama era are you referring to the 2015 Coal Ash Disposal Rule?

1a. If so, how specifically do you think this affects job numbers? shouldnt increased disposal jobs offset some of the mining loss jobs? and in any case arent increases and decreases in raw coal mined subject to very little job changes, as most of the processes are automated and there is a very real floor of coal needed to keep most of these people employed based on the # of plants still running coal?

2. the head of the EPA is approved by Senate, im sure coal will be a forefront of the questioning and a semi-friendly coal Administrator will be chosen.

3. I dont think hits to coal will cause a crash in the market with the strength we have in online giants like amazon, streaming entertainment giants like Netflix, and tech giants abound. Additionally Energy giants in the industry have been diversifying their business for years. Although with Trump winning and promising to deregulate im sure they slowed their time tables, they just got screwed by losing 4 years, so will take a hit.

I'd add that a large part of the reason we have the clean coal technology we have is due to regulation and more importantly threat of regulation. without EPA emmisions regulation i'd argue coal would have died out on a faster timeline than it currently is, and the technology created due to regulation caused a large uptick under Trump because we had better coal with lower regulations. meaning better coal with slightly more regulations wont be earth shattering, even if it does cause a downtick in overall usage and mining.

lastly, in 2015 when HRC fumbled the WV miner question, i said she was a fool. all she had to do was promise job replacement programs in areas already plundered by coal jobloss decades old to offset coal regulations. yes solar, wind, etc are the future. but we can direct where those future technologies are made with tax incentives. we dont need a solar panel plant in a NYC suburb, we need it in bumfuck WV. this type of conservative progressive clean energy could stop the Trump wing of disenfranchised blue collar workers in its tracks, but they're too snooty.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Dec 1 2020 11:58am)

And all Trump did to change that platform was Pander for votes while cutting the job retraining programs that would actually help those people