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Dec 7 2021 11:17am
Quote (thesnipa @ 7 Dec 2021 18:07)
perhaps u can link where Duff used religion to justify his position. which was my entire point, dont worry ill help you.

i dont support duffs position, in fact i support yours, but u still jumped onto calling him religious then used his position for justification religion and law shouldnt mix, another thing i agree with, but another non sequitur. which was a silly thing to do.

do u even know duffs religion? do u even know his race? or nation of origin?


perhaps you can find my reply to that very post of his, and also read my previous post clarifying how my actual claims (not your bad faith interpretation of them) are based on FACTS that you can easily find in this very thread? i mean, you made it very clear what your actual intention here was in the first reply, and left no doubt in your subsequent circle jerk with santa, i just refuse to let you get away with pretending you ever had an actual point, when it's clearly just another petty little display of your personal animus towards me...

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Dec 7 2021 11:33am
Quote (fender @ Dec 7 2021 11:29am)
see, that's the problem with you anti-choice fundamentalists, you confuse religion for biology.

again, if you want fewer abortions, don't restrict women's rights - teach comprehensive sex education, have accessible healthcare, introduce laws supporting and protecting families, and overhaul the adoption system.
the fact that none of you radicals is talking about those things, while being comfortable with charging traumatised rape victims with murder for having an abortion, tells me everything i need to know for why religion and state should not mix. you're free to have those cruel, immoral, and shitty opinions - but they should never be made into law.


I'm an atheist
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Dec 7 2021 11:34am
Quote (fender @ Dec 7 2021 12:17pm)
perhaps you can find my reply to that very post of his, and also read my previous post clarifying how my actual claims (not your bad faith interpretation of them) are based on FACTS that you can easily find in this very thread? i mean, you made it very clear what your actual intention here was in the first reply, and left no doubt in your subsequent circle jerk with santa, i just refuse to let you get away with pretending you ever had an actual point, when it's clearly just another petty little display of your personal animus towards me...

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https://i.imgur.com/bQoe334.png


"religion is bad on abortion" fender

"i dont think u have to be religious to be against abortion" duff

"see that's the problem with you religious people who use religion to justify laws" fender


idk man, thats what happened. i agree duff is wrong in his position, but u brought in religion, then he said he's not religious, and u kept on with it lol.

are you perhaps dubious of duff being non-religious? is that what's happening here?
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Dec 7 2021 12:15pm
Quote (fender @ Dec 7 2021 12:17pm)


It's a good example actually. Christians can't truly separate their "religious views" from their views on everything else, because Christianity is the foundation of our perspective. So, while the secular materialists shrug at a woman murdering her unborn child so she can chase the almighty dollar, Christians, especially those who serve in government, reach out to help that woman and unborn child, whether it be through government support or the state enforcing anti-abortion laws.

This post was edited by IceMage on Dec 7 2021 12:15pm
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Dec 7 2021 12:17pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 7 Dec 2021 18:34)
"religion is bad on abortion" fender

"i dont think u have to be religious to be against abortion" duff

"see that's the problem with you religious people who use religion to justify laws" fender


idk man, thats what happened. i agree duff is wrong in his position, but u brought in religion, then he said he's not religious, and u kept on with it lol.

are you perhaps dubious of duff being non-religious? is that what's happening here?


you left out a whole bunch of relevant stuff (most importantly, my reply to the duff post you quoted there) that was posted in between the particular points you chose to now justify your pathetic little display of butthurt. you also completely ignored what i explicitly specified as my main points. unfortunately for you, that kind of context matters.

also, you can twist yourself into a pretzel pretending like religious sentiments aren't a main driver behind the anti-choice movement, or pretend that growing up amongst people holding those has no impact on your views, morals, and values, as long as you declare yourself an atheist at some point, or simply claim religion has nothing to do with it, but again: i addressed that talking point immediately after it was made in the first place, and only a truly ignorant (or bad faith) participant would choose to simply ignore that.

have the crayon version: you don't have to believe in any god to make arguments rooted in religious world views - you don't even have to have ANY religious inspiration or background to have shitty views on a particular issue. when it comes to abortion, however, the chance of anti-choice fundamentalists being religious or influenced by religious values is extremely high, even if not at 100%.
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Dec 7 2021 12:27pm
Quote (IceMage @ 7 Dec 2021 19:15)
It's a good example actually. Christians can't truly separate their "religious views" from their views on everything else, because Christianity is the foundation of our perspective. So, while the secular materialists shrug at a woman murdering her unborn child so she can chase the almighty dollar, Christians, especially those who serve in government, reach out to help that woman and unborn child, whether it be through government support or the state enforcing anti-abortion laws.


the fact that you use the loaded (and legally wrong) term "murder" to describe an abortion illustrates (once again) that you're not interested in an honest debate of this issue.

also, the vast majority of christian fundamentalists opposing women's rights are ALSO against such things as paid family leave / programs to feed hungry children / accessible healthcare. their only concern is restricting women's rights, there's no principled "christian" concern for life in general amongst those "christians" who serve in government, lol. you're delusional.

This post was edited by fender on Dec 7 2021 12:31pm
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Dec 7 2021 12:33pm
Quote (fender @ Dec 7 2021 01:17pm)
you left out a whole bunch of relevant stuff (most importantly, my reply to the duff post you quoted there) that was posted in between the particular points you chose to now justify your pathetic little display of butthurt. you also completely ignored what i explicitly specified as my main points. unfortunately for you, that kind of context matters.

also, you can twist yourself into a pretzel pretending like religious sentiments aren't a main driver behind the anti-choice movement, or pretend that growing up amongst people holding those has no impact on your views, morals, and values, as long as you declare yourself an atheist at some point, or simply claim religion has nothing to do with it, but again: i addressed that talking point immediately after it was made in the first place, and only a truly ignorant (or bad faith) participant would choose to simply ignore that.

have the crayon version: you don't have to believe in any god to make arguments rooted in religious world views - you don't even have to have ANY religious inspiration or background to have shitty views on a particular issue. when it comes to abortion, however, the chance of anti-choice fundamentalists being religious or influenced by religious values is extremely high, even if not at 100%.


my whole point is that imo Duff resides in the almost non existent category of anti abortion pro life person who is also that way sans religious motivations. he may be a unicorn, and surely is in Pard. but you are pretending that his views MUST be tainted by religious motivations. a point that is extremely softened by him explicitly saying that is the case, which u seem to have barged through.

i suspect that you're doing the thing you often seem to, wherein someone says they think a certain thing and you make the assumption they're lying to try and win internet points. but as it logically stands to reason that even an atheist could have high reverence for human life if they're not also a nihilist i have no reason to distrust Duff's generally honest word on the matter.

as to the many claims to me im not doing anything you're claiming im doing, i fully acknowledge that religious upbringings tend to taint the stances of pro lifers even if they arent actively practicing or using religion to justify their stance, and i fully admit that finding someone that is truly nonreligious and pro life is rare as rare gets, bordering but not necessarily into nonexistent.

you also seem to be quite intent on identifying my butthurt when ive been fairly nice other than an obviously silly nazi joke to santara and admitted fully my stance is in line more or less with yours about what society needs to to to reduce abortion numbers and create a more healthy society. it appears olive branches or perhaps olive trees may not be enough for you to remain civil, but if u feel u must u can make some joke about my ancestors.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Dec 7 2021 12:33pm
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Dec 7 2021 12:56pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 7 Dec 2021 19:33)
my whole point is that imo Duff resides in the almost non existent category of anti abortion pro life person who is also that way sans religious motivations. he may be a unicorn, and surely is in Pard. but you are pretending that his views MUST be tainted by religious motivations. a point that is extremely softened by him explicitly saying that is the case, which u seem to have barged through.

i suspect that you're doing the thing you often seem to, wherein someone says they think a certain thing and you make the assumption they're lying to try and win internet points. but as it logically stands to reason that even an atheist could have high reverence for human life if they're not also a nihilist i have no reason to distrust Duff's generally honest word on the matter.

as to the many claims to me im not doing anything you're claiming im doing, i fully acknowledge that religious upbringings tend to taint the stances of pro lifers even if they arent actively practicing or using religion to justify their stance, and i fully admit that finding someone that is truly nonreligious and pro life is rare as rare gets, bordering but not necessarily into nonexistent.

you also seem to be quite intent on identifying my butthurt when ive been fairly nice other than an obviously silly nazi joke to santara and admitted fully my stance is in line more or less with yours about what society needs to to to reduce abortion numbers and create a more healthy society. it appears olive branches or perhaps olive trees may not be enough for you to remain civil, but if u feel u must u can make some joke about my ancestors.


what are you even on about, you weirdo? you are not extending olive branches, let alone trees here... you repeatedly force yourself into conversations exclusively to get in silly cheap shots (the vast majority based on the weird projections and historical ignorance of an actual pedophile, who you treat as your e-buddy btw), and regularly engage in those immature little circlejerks that further illustrate your self-admitted, eternal butthurt towards me - whereas i largely ignore you, and only ever address you in attempts to discuss certain topics i am interested in.
so i really have no idea where your delusions about being "civil" come from. whatever, it's not really worth discussing because you have proven, over years, that you're unwilling / unable to change, so you might as well go back to pretending to have me blocked, and spare me your "olive branches", if that's genuinely what you think you're doing...
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Dec 7 2021 01:01pm
Quote (fender @ Dec 7 2021 01:56pm)
what are you even on about, you weirdo? you are not extending olive branches, let alone trees here... you repeatedly force yourself into conversations exclusively to get in silly cheap shots (the vast majority based on the weird projections and historical ignorance of an actual pedophile, who you treat as your e-buddy btw), and regularly engage in those immature little circlejerks that further illustrate your self-admitted, eternal butthurt towards me - whereas i largely ignore you, and only ever address you in attempts to discuss certain topics i am interested in.
so i really have no idea where your delusions about being "civil" come from. whatever, it's not really worth discussing because you have proven, over years, that you're unwilling / unable to change, so you might as well go back to pretending to have me blocked, and spare me your "olive branches", if that's genuinely what you think you're doing...


i admitted that i agree with you, and disagree with duff, but disagree with why you disagree with duff. im not sure how much more civil i could be, given that unlike in your signature i didnt insult you, just made a pretty clearly in jest joke to santara that was both on topic and funny contextually to the conversation relating what is and isnt human to the nazi philosophy.

but ok.

can you admit that its possible for someone to be non-religious both in their current perspective and upbringing and also be pro life with a high emphasis on the unborn fetuses right to live? or is it truly your position that societies hidden and incalculable influence renders this impossible? does this change based on where someone is raised? or is it a worldwide constant? for example, in say the largely nonsecular nation of France?
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Dec 7 2021 01:05pm
Quote (thesnipa @ 7 Dec 2021 20:01)
i admitted that i agree with you, and disagree with duff, but disagree with why you disagree with duff. im not sure how much more civil i could be, given that unlike in your signature i didnt insult you, just made a pretty clearly in jest joke to santara that was both on topic and funny contextually to the conversation relating what is and isnt human to the nazi philosophy.

but ok.

can you admit that its possible for someone to be non-religious both in their current perspective and upbringing and also be pro life with a high emphasis on the unborn fetuses right to live? or is it truly your position that societies hidden and incalculable influence renders this impossible? does this change based on where someone is raised? or is it a worldwide constant? for example, in say the largely nonsecular nation of France?


can you read? are you just performing?

Quote (fender)
have the crayon version: you don't have to believe in any god to make arguments rooted in religious world views - you don't even have to have ANY religious inspiration or background to have shitty views on a particular issue. when it comes to abortion, however, the chance of anti-choice fundamentalists being religious or influenced by religious values is extremely high, even if not at 100%.


This post was edited by fender on Dec 7 2021 01:06pm
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