d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > European Union News > What's Up In The Eu.
Prev1405406407408409717Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 54,183
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Jul 24 2019 04:58pm
Quote (CarsV @ 25 Jul 2019 00:51)
Dare I say the US even won Vietnam militarily, but lost politically. A lot of people's perception of that war is skewed by Hollywood and other BS where Americans are constantly shown getting their asses kicked. In reality the US military hammered the shit out of the North Vietnamese and broke the back of the Vietcong so hard they had to resort to unconventional methods to maintain resistance, like the territories of undeclared countries to wage their war. Not that I think Vietnam was a good thing, it was a shitshow that Sauci's fucking French dragged us into. It helps to remember that more people died in Vietnam AFTER the US pulled out than the duration of the US war involvement. But according to Hollywood and "fuck America!" jack-offs, all we did was smoke weed, surf, and kill babies over there.


well, the US could have turned all of vietnam into a depopulated wasteland by using a ton more napalm and agent orange - but this would have been a huge propaganda loss in the greater scheme of things.

so when only looking at vietnam itself, one can argue like you do and say that the US could have won this conflict if they had really wanted to, but chose against it out of political reasons. but that's obviously missing the greater picture of the cold war. within the context of the cold war, Vietnam was a clear loss for the US.
Member
Posts: 54,183
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Jul 24 2019 05:08pm
back to EU topics:

did anyone mention yet how PM Johnson has purged his cabinet? Jeremy Hunt, Liam Fox, Greg Clark and many other (lesser) secretaries were forced by him to leave their post.
perhaps Johnson can be more efficient in the Brexit negotiations, considering that he - unlike May - wont have half his cabinet working against him.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 24 2019 05:08pm
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
Jul 24 2019 05:27pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 25 Jul 2019 01:08)
back to EU topics:

did anyone mention yet how PM Johnson has purged his cabinet? Jeremy Hunt, Liam Fox, Greg Clark and many other (lesser) secretaries were forced by him to leave their post.
perhaps Johnson can be more efficient in the Brexit negotiations, considering that he - unlike May - wont have half his cabinet working against him.


Thanks for going back to EU; i'm considering this possibility:

He will finish alone, drowned in mud.
Member
Posts: 30,165
Joined: Sep 10 2004
Gold: 0.00
Warn: 30%
Jul 24 2019 05:47pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 25 Jul 2019 01:08)
back to EU topics:

did anyone mention yet how PM Johnson has purged his cabinet? Jeremy Hunt, Liam Fox, Greg Clark and many other (lesser) secretaries were forced by him to leave their post.
perhaps Johnson can be more efficient in the Brexit negotiations, considering that he - unlike May - wont have half his cabinet working against him.


in what way does this increase his chances to get his plan through parliament though? i mean, his cabinet is not relevant in terms of getting the required approval...
Member
Posts: 24,082
Joined: Oct 5 2006
Gold: 45.00
Jul 25 2019 05:15am
Quote (fender @ Jul 25 2019 12:47am)
in what way does this increase his chances to get his plan through parliament though? i mean, his cabinet is not relevant in terms of getting the required approval...


Doubt his cabinet will have any effect on it tbh. He might be able to sway the Brexit tory faction to vote for the agreement with a few choice words but it would still leave him a couple of dozen votes short. Only way for him to get it through would be attract some more cross party rebels, but I highly doubt he'd be able to.
Member
Posts: 54,183
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Jul 25 2019 05:16am
Quote (fender @ 25 Jul 2019 01:47)
in what way does this increase his chances to get his plan through parliament though? i mean, his cabinet is not relevant in terms of getting the required approval...


but he needs his cabinet to prepare the authorities and logistics of the entire country for a hard brexit. and he needs these preparations to be/look legit so that his threat of a hard brexit is credible.

essentially, the UK and the EU are playing a game of chicken. and if a person removes his car's break pedal and shows it to his opponent before beginning the chicken game, he will be taken a lot more seriously.
Member
Posts: 54,183
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Jul 25 2019 05:19am
Quote (WNxIrvine @ 25 Jul 2019 13:15)
Doubt his cabinet will have any effect on it tbh. He might be able to sway the Brexit tory faction to vote for the agreement with a few choice words but it would still leave him a couple of dozen votes short. Only way for him to get it through would be attract some more cross party rebels, but I highly doubt he'd be able to.


"the agreement"? you mean May's horrendous agreement which is completely dead in the water? I highly doubt that cosmetic changes to the choice of words will be able to fix this agreement and give it majority appeal in the Commons.
Member
Posts: 24,082
Joined: Oct 5 2006
Gold: 45.00
Jul 25 2019 05:24am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 25 2019 12:19pm)
"the agreement"? you mean May's horrendous agreement which is completely dead in the water? I highly doubt that cosmetic changes to the choice of words will be able to fix this agreement and give it majority appeal in the Commons.


I didn't say it would get a majority in the commons, I said Boris *might* be able to sway the Brexit faction of the tory party.

The agreement isn't the end of the negotiations.
Member
Posts: 54,183
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Jul 25 2019 05:34am
Quote (WNxIrvine @ 25 Jul 2019 13:24)
I didn't say it would get a majority in the commons, I said Boris *might* be able to sway the Brexit faction of the tory party.

The agreement isn't the end of the negotiations.


Well, Johnson will need to show the Brexit faction something substantial to sway their opinion. And I'm sceptical that he will be able to come up with something.
Member
Posts: 24,082
Joined: Oct 5 2006
Gold: 45.00
Jul 25 2019 05:57am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 25 2019 12:34pm)
Well, Johnson will need to show the Brexit faction something substantial to sway their opinion. And I'm sceptical that he will be able to come up with something.


Too early to tell imo.

In any event, I believe the Boris bullet was played far too late. He should have been in right after Cameron. If he'd have called a general election, the tory party would have crushed Labour, he'd have sucked up all the UKIP voters and would be sitting comfortably from a workable majority. He might not be the right person for THE job, but he's the right person for THIS job.

Right now he's got 90 odd days to change something that isn't changeable, convince people that can't be convinced or impossibly shut down government and force through something that very few people want.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1405406407408409717Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll