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Feb 21 2022 04:46pm
On the verge of war between Russia and Ukraine, the party of Reagan this morning:

https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1495750407888510985

The pro-Putin take from Tucker tonight is going to be wild.

Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 21 2022 05:36pm)
nuh uh, he ordered troops into the newly recognized as independent Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic, thereby making it now a "peacekeeping operation" instead of an "invasion"
:bouncy:


inb4'd void
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Feb 21 2022 04:46pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Feb 21 2022 03:25pm)
They haven't done any of those things.

The Ukrainian people launched the 2014 revolution when Yanukovych kowtowed to Russian interests against those of Ukraine. Large majorities in Ukraine want to be aligned with the West. No one wants to be tied to Russia's sinking boat and unique form of kleptocratic authoritarianism. The Ukrainian government is not fascist by definition. The Ukrainian government has no reason to push for war, and many reasons why not to. The Russian government requires conflict, because the current regime is floundering. It's increasingly isolated, living standards are collapsing, and its diplomatic outreach is increasingly limited to international pariahs.

Chinese influence is growing, because the Chinese have a growing economy. You don't get to lump Russia's sob story in with Chinese success. The Chinese have the opportunity to rewrite history, whether for better or (more likely) for worse, Russia is no more than a footnote.


Thanks for the CNN-sponsored narrative, bro.

I'm not even going to begin to attempt to detangle the propaganda here because it would take too long, and quite frankly, you just keep going in circles with these statements which are based on a Reuters or BBC level of understanding, and is simply not rooted in reality.

It is true that some Ukrainians wanted to be more aligned with the west. However, that is not entirely why the coup happened - it happened and it was successful because the coup had US backing from the get-go. Without said backing, it would have just been another protest that would have fizzled out. The pictures of Victoria Nuland handing out cookies to the protestors and giving them support as they're rioting and throwing molotov cocktails at police are infamous. Too bad you've never seen them.

Sorry, but you don't just get to ignore the thousands of victims of the Ukrainian army's aggression towards its own people. Yes, those people died and yes, they were victims of Ukrainian army aggression. Keep pretending it never happened all you like, but I'm not going to play that game with you because it's a waste of time.

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Feb 21 2022 04:47pm
Quote (IceMage @ Feb 21 2022 05:46pm)
On the verge of war between Russia and Ukraine, the party of Reagan this morning:

https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1495750407888510985

The pro-Putin take from Tucker tonight is going to be wild.



inb4'd void


Current GOP not the party of Reagan.
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Feb 21 2022 04:47pm
Quote (Skinned @ Feb 21 2022 04:27pm)
Bloodless? Ukraine has 1/3 the population of Russia, is on its own turf, and had just received $2.5B with of small antitank, anti artillery, and anti air missiles that aren't structures but rather highly mobile weapons. Russia couldn't conquer Afghanistan and they aren't nearly as well armed or motivated (or well fed) as the free people of Ukraine. Plus the people of Ukraine are under the real threat of losing their freedom of self determination and determining their own government. They just overthrew the puppet Russian government that was actually already installed, installing another is going to be difficult.

Russia has the second greatest military in the world, and Ukraine is 26ish. But Ukraine's entire military and reserves are dedicated to the defense of Ukraine. Russia needs to spread its army around because it is so busy attacking or puppeteering their neighbors that they need troops everywhere to keep the peace.. It is an illiberal dictatorship after all. Ukraine is a liberal democracy and wishes to stay free.

If Russia invades it will be after one of these false flags sticks. There have been several already. They like start by establishing air superiority and bombing any anti armor and anti air weapons that are structural (hence the $2.5b small arms given to Ukraine to defend themselves) and then launch a ground invasion, while the Ukrainian game plan will be stall stall stall, trade blood for time, and hope the west helps them during this obvious war crime being committed. I can't imagine Europe will sit back and allow Russia to just invade a sovereign state like it did with Hitler and Poland. I don't think appeasement is on the menu this time. That is what NATO was created for.

Right now the ball is in Russia's court. They've already occupied two regions of Ukraine, Crimea and Donbass, by sending in their military dressed as irregulars (the little green men that were all over were professional soldiers) and they're now eyeing Odessa and Kiev. Letting Russia start a new pogrom in Ukraine would be so catastrophic strategically to NATO I don't think it would be allowed.

Pax Americana is being tested. We have had relative global peace since WW2 to the benefit of everyone, but especially the poor countries of the world. Pax Americana ends when Russia is allowed to start invading the Warsaw countries again unchecked, when China is allowed to move back into Taiwan unchecked, when the allies of the United States are no longer safe because they can't count on us to stand up to the regional dictator getting too big for their britches.

Letting Russia and China get away with cheating in the Olympics is bad enough.


let me run some numbers on the strength of the Afghanistan military and how impressive and well equipped and well trained it was, how it was the greatest fighting force in the mideast and had state of the art weaponry and billions of dollars of US aid aaaaand its gone. Its gone. Its all gone. The afghan military didn't too well its all gone. Not anymore, poof.

Military conflicts with predetermined outcomes that everyone recognizes, don't motivate people to go out and throw their lives away. Everyone makes their escape plan advance. Foreign puppet heads of government who see their support crumble drive to exile in a motorcade stuffed with as much loot as they can fit. Nobody fights a war, shelling and airstrikes and trenches have no purpose. When the first world countries move in, the third world countries fold instantly. When the first world countries move out, their puppets ruling those third world countries fold instantly.
Everyone knew how this would end, nobody even bothered pretending it would be a real invasion. Biden teed up a bunch of sanctions. Germany refused to lift a finger.
So now we're watching as Ukraine tells ethnic Ukrainians to immediately evacuate to the west, while Putin seizes and fortifies the east, and no actual war took place, no real change to the status quo, just a pure formality. Russia already had little green men swarming over the east, now they're just official. Ukraine already had zero control over the breakaway regions, now their independence is recognized by Russia. Where's the hot war? Where's the big epic battle scene for the hollywood movie someone films 15 years from now?
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Feb 21 2022 04:49pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 21 2022 05:36pm)
Half of what-used-to-be-Ukraine would prefer Russia to the post Euromaidan coup administration in Kyiv, whether you agree with their geopolitical sphere expanding or not. Putin didn't need to rig the Crimean polls in 2014, its how the people felt.
What difference does it make to the average Ukrainian, even in the west and inside America's sphere of influence? The corrupt Russia oligarchy that was pilfering their natural resources was uprooted and replaced by a corrupt Western oligarchy that promptly pilfered their natural resources. And nobody in the west was willing to actually back them, invest in nationbuilding or ward off Russia. Putin was free to circumvent Ukraine with Nord Stream 2 to free up the last bit of leverage held by Western Ukraine, Germany was all too willing to suckle at Putin's teat, and now the inevitable has come to pass. The most half-assed foreign intervention and CIA backed overthrow of a regime wasn't going to motivate the masses to hold the line and throw away their lives in service of the EU and USA. Putin just made a formality out of the status quo.


I am going by recent popular opinion polls in the country. That doesn't include Crimea and the Donbass, obviously, because they're not under Ukrainian control.

Crimea is majority Russian, it's a unique situation. In the grand scheme of things, it belongs closer to Russia than it ever did Ukraine. Whether the million or two people in separatist controlled Donbass want to join them is anyone's guess, but I can guarantee that we won't be getting accurate polls.
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Feb 21 2022 04:49pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 21 2022 05:47pm)
let me run some numbers on the strength of the Afghanistan military and how impressive and well equipped and well trained it was, how it was the greatest fighting force in the mideast and had state of the art weaponry and billions of dollars of US aid aaaaand its gone. Its gone. Its all gone. The afghan military didn't too well its all gone. Not anymore, poof.

Military conflicts with predetermined outcomes that everyone recognizes, don't motivate people to go out and throw their lives away. Everyone makes their escape plan advance. Foreign puppet heads of government who see their support crumble drive to exile in a motorcade stuffed with as much loot as they can fit. Nobody fights a war, shelling and airstrikes and trenches have no purpose. When the first world countries move in, the third world countries fold instantly. When the first world countries move out, their puppets ruling those third world countries fold instantly.
Everyone knew how this would end, nobody even bothered pretending it would be a real invasion. Biden teed up a bunch of sanctions. Germany refused to lift a finger.
So now we're watching as Ukraine tells ethnic Ukrainians to immediately evacuate to the west, while Putin seizes and fortifies the east, and no actual war took place, no real change to the status quo, just a pure formality. Russia already had little green men swarming over the east, now they're just official. Ukraine already had zero control over the breakaway regions, now their independence is recognized by Russia. Where's the hot war? Where's the big epic battle scene for the hollywood movie someone films 15 years from now?


Oh, its been done for the breakaway regions. on Kiev and Odessa being on the menu?
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Feb 21 2022 04:50pm
Quote (Sioux @ Feb 21 2022 03:17pm)
There are Russian tanks in Ukraine as we speak. Keep spinning.


Spin what exactly? Ukraine has not had control over DPR or LPR since the first few months of 2014.

Tell me, how is Russia deploying troops to Donbass on a peacekeeping mission - ordered only to fire on any force which would attack Donbass - the full-scale invasion that Biden wanted to happen so badly?

They're not the same thing and you know it. Biden lied, instigated this conflict with his pawns in Ukraine, and now everyone is shocked that Russia is responding by moving to prevent the loss of further civilian life at the hands of Ukrainian fascists?

Oh yes, so shocking! No way anybody could have seen it coming :rofl:
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Feb 21 2022 04:51pm


This is the Russian ambassador to the US yesterday.
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Feb 21 2022 04:53pm
Quote (Skinned @ Feb 21 2022 03:27pm)

Letting Russia and China get away with cheating in the Olympics is bad enough.



HAHAHAHAHA - you seriously buy into the Eurotrash propaganda about how Russian athletes cheat in the olympics?

You do realize that this is racist propaganda designed to hurt Russian morale coming from a bunch of sick fucks that just want to hurt Russia anywhere they possibly can, right?

If you're seriously one of the types to believe this crap, then damn. You may as well abandon this thread and go back to CNN where you belong.
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Feb 21 2022 04:54pm
Quote (chopstickz777 @ Feb 21 2022 02:50pm)
Spin what exactly? Ukraine has not had control over DPR or LPR since the first few months of 2014.

Tell me, how is Russia deploying troops to Donbass on a peacekeeping mission - ordered only to fire on any force which would attack Donbass - the full-scale invasion that Biden wanted to happen so badly?

They're not the same thing and you know it. Biden lied, instigated this conflict with his pawns in Ukraine, and now everyone is shocked that Russia is responding by moving to prevent the loss of further civilian life at the hands of Ukrainian fascists?

Oh yes, so shocking! No way anybody could have seen it coming :rofl:


Quote (chopstickz777 @ Feb 21 2022 02:53pm)
HAHAHAHAHA - you seriously buy into the Eurotrash propaganda about how Russian athletes cheat in the olympics?

You do realize that this is racist propaganda designed to hurt Russian morale coming from a bunch of sick fucks that just want to hurt Russia anywhere they possibly can, right?

If you're seriously one of the types to believe this crap, then damn. You may as well abandon this thread and go back to CNN where you belong.


Settle down Ivan. No one buys your propaganda here.
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