Quote (Ylem122 @ Aug 16 2012 06:15am)

no.

that would conttradict the term closed system and the laws of thermo dynamics.

really the math problem 1/0 should be more then valid enough to prove that infinity can not exist in reality.

Quote (sylvannos @ Aug 16 2012 11:00am)

While the Koran and Muhammad are very specific about Christ, it still doesn't answer much about his life or teachings. For example, how does Islam address the sermon on the mount? I mean, why wouldn't there be an almost line by line analysis of what is and isn't correct within the bible given by Muhammad? I guess that's the part I don't understand. If the bible is tainted, either:

1) correct the mistakes.
2) give us the correct version and throw out everything we know.
3) reject the entire thing.

Instead, we get only a wee bit of information from Gabriel. But, we have no idea if Allah approves of us doing something recommended in the old and new treatments (such as gouging out your eyes for looking upon a woman with lust). Islam knows not to eat pork and Christ was born of a virgin. Islam also uses Arabic to keep the Koran pure to prevent misinterpretation. But then it ignores so many previous teachings?

Yeah, I don't buy that.

You're right it doesn't compute. Nobody who supports those theories thinks you can have something from nothing. The OP was setting go a strawman by stating atheists think the universe spontaneously came into being.

It would change how things are positioned or our upstanding of how things work. For instance, if the universe is expanding like we think it is, then there still exists a finite amount of matter within the universe. As space expands as a result of the big bang, there's the potential that galaxies, stars, and eventually planets will be incredibly far apart. I.e. all life would cease to exist.

However, if the universe was started by a god with no big bang, then we're probably wrong as to why the universe is expanding. It also means it ends when said god says it ends. In this case, there is little we can do to understand our reality since the physics of it are based in the supernatural.

Quote (AEtheric @ Aug 16 2012 10:33am)

What? I just said that the universe is an open system, then.  And I completely smashed you on the whoile 'infinity can't exist'.

Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 16 2012 01:09pm)

The universe expands only to its limited energy it has. Eventually it rubber-bands back and collapses.






There is a fixed amount of energy in the Universe. The universe is open if it is affected by something outside of it. If there is no outside of it then obviously it is a closed system.

Quote (Voyaging @ Aug 16 2012 06:40pm)

Thank you expert cosmologist.

Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 16 2012 02:55pm)

Was correcting them. I'm confused if you just posted that to get a +1 or what.

Quote (Voyaging @ Aug 16 2012 06:00pm)

I'm saying you're not an expert cosmologist.

Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 16 2012 11:09am)

Why would you need to know what is exactly correct and incorrect from what Jesus said? It doesn't help you live your life. These books are meant to be a guide. The Quran states look back at the previous scriptures, but if you see something contradicting the Quran, ignore it.
You can't reject the entire thing because it still contains a huge amount of untainted things. The mistakes are corrected in the final testament which, is the Quran. The Quran and Sunnah completes all teachings, nothing is left out to carry out your life.

The universe expands only to its limited energy it has. Eventually it rubber-bands back and collapses.






There is a fixed amount of energy in the Universe. The universe is open if it is affected by something outside of it. If there is no outside of it then obviously it is a closed system.

Quote (AEtheric @ Aug 17 2012 12:41am)

Then the universe is an infinite closed system. Oh, and the big bang is false.

Quote (Voyaging @ Aug 17 2012 12:00am)

I'm saying you're not an expert cosmologist.

Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 16 2012 09:45pm)

There are only a few (i assume diehard religious) people who have tried to prove the big bang false by giving special case scenarios, but disregard the big picture. I have read them, it wouldn't be feasible to believe its false. They look at a specific thing and ignore outside forces that might affect them, then they say "ah ha .. here we have proof its false".



Did someone try to convince you i was?

Although I did take thermodynmics as an Engineering course, and 3 semesters of Physics. I don't consider myself an expert, but these are basic things we are discussing.

Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 16 2012 07:45pm)

There are only a few (i assume diehard religious) people who have tried to prove the big bang false by giving special case scenarios, but disregard the big picture. I have read them, it wouldn't be feasible to believe its false. They look at a specific thing and ignore outside forces that might affect them, then they say "ah ha .. here we have proof its false".