Quote (Skinned @ Jan 28 2022 06:38pm)

I thought this was gonna be a matt gaetz defense thread, and I'm disappointed.

Quote (Sioux @ Jan 29 2022 01:33am)

He slept with 6 child prostitutes and you're here splitting hairs over definitions.

Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 28 2022 04:40pm)

Pretty similar cases tbh. Seems like its "Seeking Arrangements [With Rich Republicans]"

In this one the political motive is a little more direct and obvious since this guy was arrested while in the act of getting his 'ilhan omar dna test' website online and the prosecutors even said they decided to arrest him after he approached the FBI and offered them the evidence on Omar.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2022 04:03pm)

Isn't a crossing of state lines kinda inevitable in a lot of cases where an agglomeration crosses or touches upon state lines, say NYC vs NJ, Philly vs NJ/MD, Chicago vs IN, Charlotte vs SC?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 28 2022 03:46pm)

Oh, I totally agree that these issues can get thorny. I just don't think there's any ambiguity in a case like this one where they hooked up on an explicit escort/sugar daddy site.

Quote (CyrusTheGreat @ Jan 28 2022 03:58pm)

A debate (especially of this nature) is always open to other questions of credible allegations (which were not asked and I personally believe that was intentional). It's the core spirit of debate - the sharing of ideas and keeping the playing field even. Also, when the person in question's wife has publicly stated (even in light of these allegations) that she is trying to get back into the White House, it becomes that much more relevant-a-topic to introduce.

if one is ready to negate one political party in a public debate forum, they should prepare themselves to handle the questions from someone else regarding the behaviors of the members of the opposite party they align with that are equally as deplorable.

I will restate because it can't be restated enough. This isn't a left or right thing in my opinion -- I simply want to know why we are being selective here, which seems very common.

Have a nice weekend :)

Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 28 2022 04:23pm)

Also to add more details, digging into the indictment;
https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/press-release/file/1424071/download

I don't see anything about them actually crossing state lines. It purports sex trafficking of a minor for soliciting sex and providing transportation, but as far as I can tell it all occurred intrastate, they didn't charge him under the Mann Act, so its not a real parallel to the Matt Gaetz case
I see they used;
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1591

18 U.S. Code § 1591 - Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion

uh hold up. It says right in the indictment, "sex trafficking of a minor", title 18, united state code, sections 1591(a)(1)
by when you look up the code, it literally says "by force, fraud or coercion" right in the title, and reads:




There hasn't been any evidence of force, fraud or coercion from what I can tell, not in the actual act of the hookup prior to the legal case and hush money / extortion after the fact.
Section (e)(2) provides:




So when the defense says that the statute usually involves coercion and that wasn't present, they weren't kidding, its basically the main element of the statute not just a usual accompanying factor.

Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 28 2022 04:23pm)

Also to add more details, digging into the indictment;
https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/press-release/file/1424071/download

I don't see anything about them actually crossing state lines. It purports sex trafficking of a minor for soliciting sex and providing transportation, but as far as I can tell it all occurred intrastate, they didn't charge him under the Mann Act, so its not a real parallel to the Matt Gaetz case
I see they used;
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1591

18 U.S. Code § 1591 - Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion

uh hold up. It says right in the indictment, "sex trafficking of a minor", title 18, united state code, sections 1591(a)(1)
by when you look up the code, it literally says "by force, fraud or coercion" right in the title, and reads:




There hasn't been any evidence of force, fraud or coercion from what I can tell, not in the actual act of the hookup prior to the legal case and hush money / extortion after the fact.
Section (e)(2) provides:




So when the defense says that the statute usually involves coercion and that wasn't present, they weren't kidding, its basically the main element of the statute not just a usual accompanying factor.

Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 28 2022 01:25pm)

https://www.startribune.com/state-gop-operative-charged-with-sex-trafficking-minors-claims-feds-targeted-him-for-being-rich/600140320/?refresh=true

There's been something of an interesting development in a side story to the Ilhan Omar saga now that court filings are laid out.
Last year a GOP donor and operative in Minnesota was arrested under lurid charges of child sex trafficking, just hours after he posted a website unveiling purported DNA evidence that he and his operatives had obtained by traveling to Kenya, claiming to prove with DNA that Ilhan Omar's former husband Ahmed Nur Said Elmi was indeed her biological brother. It was quite the timing as he unveiled this story only to be immediately brought up on pedophilia charges, and shook up the state GOP, leading to the eventual resignation of Jennifer Carnahan, the GOP state chair who had been supported by this donor.

Now the facts of the case are out and its a bit more nuanced. What apparently is uncontested is that 31 year old Anton Lazzaro went on dates with girls in the 16-17 year range who he met through the sugar-baby website Seeking Arrangement (and a girl he met on it who introduced him to her friends), and that he had bought valuable gifts for them while shopping like cell phones, vape pens, a prada purse, etc. The age of consent in Minnesota is 16, making them of legal age normally. The state's indictment claims that Lazzaro was exchanging these gifts for sex as a form of prostitution, thereby making it ipso facto illegal sexual activity, and that because it was prostitution across state lines it can be charged as federal sex trafficking which has an age of consent of 18, thereby making it child sex trafficking. The defense has claimed that the girls were approached by government agents and 'convinced' that their consensual activities were actually prostitution after the fact, and that one girl attempted to extort him with a demand of $1000 in hush money by text message, which he offered to pay in exchange for a non-disclosure agreement, and that he is being targeted for political reasons and wealth.

The defense points out that there seems to be no precedent in all US federal case law for the government to charge a young man for engaging in consensual sexual activity with a girl of legal age based on the theory that giving her gifts makes it constitute a commercial sex act. I don't know if that claim is true or not, but it seems pretty jarring that this theory would criminalize... a lot of relationships. If a man buys a woman some jewelry or cosmetics or clothing while on a date at the mall and then goes home and they fuck consensually, is he now a john? Is she a prostitute? Under the eyes of the law, until this case was filed, they weren't. But the prosecution in this case is arguing that gift giving makes otherwise consensual sex into commerce, which is implicitly illegal regardless of age.
And of course, this overreach just happened to very conspicuously occur in the extreme far-left prosecutors office led by Keith "E Hakim" Ellison at the same time the guy was trying to prove Ilhan Omar married her own brother with DNA evidence, down to the hour.

So what's the difference between a date and a prostitute?

Quote (Handcuffs @ Jan 28 2022 07:40pm)

I haven't read anything in a cursory search whether any of the individual cases/charges involve crossing state lines or not either, but am just postulating based off of the charges that there's potential. If everything was intrastate then he still runs into a number of issues if the connections were facilitated through Seeking Arrangements, which expressly states that people have to be at least 18 to utilize the site. Further, if the article I posted earlier is accurate, there's awareness that he had that at least one of the girls was 15. And, if everything were consensual and in accordance with age of consent/sex working laws, then there would be no reason to attempt to bribe any of the minors to keep silent, no?