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Sep 12 2021 11:28am
Quote (inkanddagger @ 12 Sep 2021 07:17)
Right wingers keep saying that people sell their labor to an employer at an agreed upon wage, but then freak out when those same workers aren’t behind the counters working for less than they are willing to sell their labor. Whiny ass hypocrites.


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Location: Los Angeles, CA


Your opinion can be discarded and thrown into the trash can.
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Sep 12 2021 11:29am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 12 2021 07:22am)
We're approaching double digit trillion dollars pumped into the financial system with various types of handouts in the last year and a half or so. Labor force participation rate one of the lowest we had since the 1970s...

There's no shortage of able bodied people to work, there's a shortage of people willing to work when working endangers that welfare.


But states that curtailed the extra benefits are still experiencing labor shortages. Like I said, I live in a state that cut the unemployment benefits months ago.

There are two big factors that I think aren't being considered, one being that the elderly are still driving up demand but aren't working as much, thus lowering the labor force participation rate, and the gig economy is taking workers from low level positions. When I get bored I drive uber eats and I make easily $30 an hour. Why would I work at a store for $12 an hour when I can work uber eats for $30, and that extra $18 EASILY covers the discounted gas I get, discounted car maintenence I get from them, and uber eats has better discounts on health insurance than the shit options at a convenience store that doesn't give a retirement benfit anyway.

Quote (excellence @ Sep 12 2021 10:08am)


I've never bought an anime figurine and I still feel personally attacked.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Sep 12 2021 11:31am
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Sep 12 2021 11:56am
Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 12 Sep 2021 10:24)
It's only cheaper if you consider your time to be worthless. Which kind of makes sense when you're poor since you don't make much at your job.

Also, who's burning a ton of calories preparing and cleaning up a meal? Like, what?


Cooking a meal and cleaning up afterwards burns, on average, between 150-500 calories, based on 30 minutes to an hour's worth of total work. Assuming 3 meals a day, that translates to 450-1500 daily calories burned.

Also, the "time=money" argument is stupid on it's face. If you are being forced to take an unpaid hour for lunch, that time is worth 0. Likewise, if you're off work and not being paid, the time needed to prepare dinner is worth 0. Likewise, the time to prepare breakfast, if you're not otherwise being paid, is worth 0. This is part of why it's considered "free time".

I always find it hilarious when people who spend their free time playing games, surfing the internet, and watching TV claim their time is "too valuable" to cook, do chores, and get exercise. It's amusing. And we wonder why there's an obesity epidemic? :rolleyes:

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 12 Sep 2021 10:29)
But states that curtailed the extra benefits are still experiencing labor shortages. Like I said, I live in a state that cut the unemployment benefits months ago.


Again, when people had free housing and were gaining in excess of $30K/year for over a year for sitting around doing nothing, and far more if they had children or were dual income, there's no immediate cause to get back to work for anyone who dropped any real amount into savings. Add in programs that paid landlords for rent April 2020 through February 2021, and tenants' ability to skip out on rent from March-July... Why do people who may very well have tens of thousands in free cash banked have any immediate need to hop right back into the labor pool?

Truthfully, trying to claim that anyone who spent years barely able to pay the bills, living paycheck to paycheck has any incentive to go back to work when they now have enough in the bank to not work for the next year is somewhat silly.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 12 Sep 2021 10:25)
Right wingers only started going after big tech when big tech started censoring their obvious lies. Prior to that they were, and largely still remain, totally in favor of big tech's monopolistic behavior. I don't see anybody looking to break up Amazon or Google. Just ad-hoc regulations when the monopoly doesn't benefit them.


Another silly post. "Right Wingers" have had a big hate on for big tech for decades. Between all the tax breaks and even tax credits they receive to the outsourcing of labor and production, to the monopolistic anti-competition practices, to the "non-scalping" agreements between the companies to prevent higher labor costs, the right's been riding big tech's ass for ages. Censorship issues are a separate issue, and the majority of "right wingers" haven't been advocating for taxing them out of existence or breaking them up over censorship, merely removing some of their lawsuit protections.
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Sep 12 2021 12:15pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Sep 12 2021 09:11am)
To the contrary, this is a complete vindication of the right-wing position. Market factors can clearly push wages higher.



Market factors. Aka UBI.
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Sep 12 2021 01:09pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ 12 Sep 2021 18:45)
Several issues with this post, but I'd just like to point out the glaring lie: 40% of "the entire labor market" is NOT unionized. Only 6.6% of the private labor market is unionized. 34.8% of the PUBLIC labor market (aka government workers) are unionized. As for the overall labor market, a grand total of 12.1% is unionized.


It was a hypothetical example of a situation where rising wages would indeed lead to economy-wide inflation....
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Sep 12 2021 02:02pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 12 2021 10:56am)


Another silly post. "Right Wingers" have had a big hate on for big tech for decades. Between all the tax breaks and even tax credits they receive to the outsourcing of labor and production, to the monopolistic anti-competition practices,


I am interested in hearing what you might propose as a solution to these monopolistic, anti-competition practices. No I am not disagreeing with. I am 100 % behind you, I believe companies like Walmart, starbucks, Lockheed Martin, facebook...etc all need to be broken up so that smaller businesses can have a chance to compete against them and thrive. However, would not this mean the government has to step in? And my impression is that you detest any form of government intervention in a free, capitalist country. Would love to hear your thoughts.
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Sep 12 2021 03:17pm
Quote (JessiWan @ 12 Sep 2021 13:02)
I am interested in hearing what you might propose as a solution to these monopolistic, anti-competition practices. No I am not disagreeing with. I am 100 % behind you, I believe companies like Walmart, starbucks, Lockheed Martin, facebook...etc all need to be broken up so that smaller businesses can have a chance to compete against them and thrive. However, would not this mean the government has to step in? And my impression is that you detest any form of government intervention in a free, capitalist country. Would love to hear your thoughts.


Why would you break up facebook? And break it up into what? What services do they provide outside a social media platform? There are competitors, such as twitter, minds, etc. that operate just fine. It's not a monopoly.

No, monopolistic and anti-competition examples might be Amazon with AWS, and how they booted Parlor after writing a mutually beneficial contract with twitter that would have made parlor's taking of users from twitter a problem. Or perhaps how amazon will make knockoff amazon brands of products that other people are selling using the amazon marketplace, then derank everything but the highly profitable cheap to make amazon brands so that sales for amazon partners tank, while Amazon's direct sales go through the roof.

Imagine if windows was so specific that you could not run any browser but Edge, and it would not allow you to install chrome at all, for instance. Now branch that out, say they did it for spreadsheet software, document software, money management software. Now, they don't and never have, but what if they did? Well, what exactly do you think Google does with it's android services which actively pick and choose what to allow into their store, then require many steps to enable installing things not from their store onto their products?
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Sep 12 2021 03:18pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 12 2021 02:17pm)
Why would you break up facebook? And break it up into what? What services do they provide outside a social media platform? There are competitors, such as twitter, minds, etc. that operate just fine. It's not a monopoly.

No, monopolistic and anti-competition examples might be Amazon with AWS, and how they booted Parlor after writing a mutually beneficial contract with twitter that would have made parlor's taking of users from twitter a problem. Or perhaps how amazon will make knockoff amazon brands of products that other people are selling using the amazon marketplace, then derank everything but the highly profitable cheap to make amazon brands so that sales for amazon partners tank, while Amazon's direct sales go through the roof.

Imagine if windows was so specific that you could not run any browser but Edge, and it would not allow you to install chrome at all, for instance. Now branch that out, say they did it for spreadsheet software, document software, money management software. Now, they don't and never have, but what if they did? Well, what exactly do you think Google does with it's android services which actively pick and choose what to allow into their store, then require many steps to enable installing things not from their store onto their products?

Ok, let me put it this way, IF you are indeed wanting to break up monopolies, will this or will it not involve the government stepping in?
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Sep 12 2021 03:47pm
Quote (JessiWan @ 12 Sep 2021 14:18)
Ok, let me put it this way, IF you are indeed wanting to break up monopolies, will this or will it not involve the government stepping in?


Yes, it always has. I'm not sure what company you want to break up though, or why. I think legal liability protections being reduced and/or stripped on a case by case basis, tax breaks and credits being revoked, etc. are a good start though. These are incentives for companies to continue doing precisely what they're doing. Removing the incentive, and instead incentivizing competitors, or simply allowing the market to function normally is a good start.

Hell, between OSHA and EPA regulations alone, smaller competitors often end up finding themselves fined out of business, simply because they can't afford to pay the staff to keep up with regulation requirements to know what they are or aren't supposed to do. As a whole, we're far too regulated now, and this provides a competitive advantage to the larger companies that smaller businesses often trip over. I doubt breaking up Amazon, for instance, would help breed competition at all, but would rather harm consumers, as well as smaller businesses that primarily sell their products via the Amazon Marketplace. In general, fewer regulations and restrictions, permits and requirements that act as bars of entry and cost floors would accomplish far more in the competitive arena.
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Sep 12 2021 03:53pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 12 2021 02:47pm)
Yes, it always has. I'm not sure what company you want to break up though, or why. I think legal liability protections being reduced and/or stripped on a case by case basis, tax breaks and credits being revoked, etc. are a good start though. These are incentives for companies to continue doing precisely what they're doing. Removing the incentive, and instead incentivizing competitors, or simply allowing the market to function normally is a good start.

Hell, between OSHA and EPA regulations alone, smaller competitors often end up finding themselves fined out of business, simply because they can't afford to pay the staff to keep up with regulation requirements to know what they are or aren't supposed to do. As a whole, we're far too regulated now, and this provides a competitive advantage to the larger companies that smaller businesses often trip over. I doubt breaking up Amazon, for instance, would help breed competition at all, but would rather harm consumers, as well as smaller businesses that primarily sell their products via the Amazon Marketplace. In general, fewer regulations and restrictions, permits and requirements that act as bars of entry and cost floors would accomplish far more in the competitive arena.

My point is that, if you are saying the government should step in, then I see that this contradicts your usual stance that the government should get itself out of most economic transactions and indeed most peaceful human interactions. Correct me if wrong.

And just to clarify: my own position is that governments are needed, however we should have very clear rules about when they can step in to intervene or not, when it comes to the economy. I don't believe communism works, for the reasons you provided, however I also do not believe laisse faire capitalism works, either. To me the ideal situation is where the economy is mostly capitalistic, with government oversight making sure that monopolies don't form and that companies comply with regulations that help protect employees and the environment.

Would love to hear what your ideal is, bobb.
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