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#41
Mar 2 2021 09:49pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 2 2021 09:46pm)
The Javits center was open in time, and according to the times report, the main obstacle that prevented it from being used were local red tape and organizational failures. Unlike in the case of the Navy ship, I have never heard of anything to suggest that the feds blocked this facility from being used.


Wasn't open for Covid patients until April 2nd, so better than the others, but still available pretty late to prevent sending the elderly back to nursing homes.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-andrew-m-cuomo-announces-temporary-hospital-facility-javits-convention-center-will


I'm seeing that it had 2500 beds. How does that compare to the nursing home population? Seems low but I don't know the numbers.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Mar 2 2021 09:51pm
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#42
Mar 2 2021 10:07pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 3 Mar 2021 04:49)
Wasn't open for Covid patients until April 2nd, so better than the others, but still available pretty late to prevent sending the elderly back to nursing homes.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-andrew-m-cuomo-announces-temporary-hospital-facility-javits-convention-center-will


I'm seeing that it had 2500 beds. How does that compare to the nursing home population? Seems low but I don't know the numbers.


According to the AP [1], there were a total of around 9000 patients being admitted to nursing homes under Cuomo's directive, which was in effect from March 25 until May 10. So while the Javits center might not have been available for the first 8 days of the directive, from March 25 to April 2, it was available almost a full week before the Bille Jean Center opened up. Which by the way proves
Arsenic_touch
's claim wrong that "the first temporary hospital went up April 10th".

Anyway, these 9000 cases we're talking about here did not all come due during these first 8 days. At any given week, 2500 beds would presumably have been sufficient or nearly sufficient if 9000 is the total figure after a 6 week span. I would say that at least for the covid patients sent to nursing homes between April 2 and May 10, New York's officials do indeed bear responsibility.

The bottom line is that we cannot pin each and every nursing home deaths which resulted from admitted covid patients on Cuomo, but that we definitely cannot clear him from having significant amounts of blood on his hands either.



[1] https://apnews.com/article/new-york-andrew-cuomo-us-news-coronavirus-pandemic-nursing-homes-512cae0abb55a55f375b3192f2cdd6b5

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 2 2021 10:10pm
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#43
Mar 2 2021 10:18pm
I could be wrong but didn't cuomo turn down Trump's hospital vessel and the left cheered him
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#44
Mar 3 2021 07:16am
Quote (bogie160 @ Mar 2 2021 09:23pm)
I have not defended Trump's coronavirus response. The fact that you are deflecting Cuomo's failures onto Trump might be read as a partisan attack.

Opposing lockdowns and signing off on senior death warrants are two different things. Trump will be judged by the end result of the pandemic. That is outstanding. We know today that Cuomo sent tens of thousands to their deaths needlessly. That is unacceptable.


There's a difference between not defending and criticizing. You call Cuomo a mass murderer, which is a pretty hyperbolic statement, yet it's almost certainly true that Trump's failure on the coronavius has resulted in more needless deaths.

I'm not deflecting Cuomo's failures... I'm asking someone to explain to me what those failures were, and his level of responsibility. Right-wingers tend to do this... talking points become popular and they don't even do the legwork to adequately defend them. It's quite easy for me to lay out Trump's failures... there's a million clips of him downplaying the virus, speaking ill of masks, saying ridiculous, non-scientific stuff from the White House podium, etc. We learned that he got the vaccine, but kept it secret, while knowing that had he vigorously endorsed it, it would likely save thousands of lives. And that's just a few of the blatantly obvious things.

So, the fact that you're hyperbolically attacking Cuomo while you can't muster an ounce of outrage for Trump, shows me you are a partisan hack.
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#45
Mar 3 2021 10:21am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Mar 2 2021 07:59pm)
The comfort is the hospital ship THAT TRUMP WOULD NOT ALLOW CUOMO TO USE FOR COVID PATIENTS.

I've been over this a dozen times with a dozen different posters.

Who was running the Javits center? If it was the army, then it's the same problem. Literally Donald fucking Trump not letting them use it for Covid patients.


Why are you bothering with them?
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#46
Mar 3 2021 10:29am
Quote (Skinned @ Mar 3 2021 10:21am)
Why are you bothering with them?


Same reason I bother with anything here. Boredom.
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#47
Mar 3 2021 10:31am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 2 2021 10:07pm)
According to the AP [1], there were a total of around 9000 patients being admitted to nursing homes under Cuomo's directive, which was in effect from March 25 until May 10. So while the Javits center might not have been available for the first 8 days of the directive, from March 25 to April 2, it was available almost a full week before the Bille Jean Center opened up. Which by the way proves ^Arsenic_touch 's claim wrong that "the first temporary hospital went up April 10th".
Anyway, these 9000 cases we're talking about here did not all come due during these first 8 days. At any given week, 2500 beds would presumably have been sufficient or nearly sufficient if 9000 is the total figure after a 6 week span. I would say that at least for the covid patients sent to nursing homes between April 2 and May 10, New York's officials do indeed bear responsibility.
The bottom line is that we cannot pin each and every nursing home deaths which resulted from admitted covid patients on Cuomo, but that we definitely cannot clear him from having significant amounts of blood on his hands either.
[1] https://apnews.com/article/new-york-andrew-cuomo-us-news-coronavirus-pandemic-nursing-homes-512cae0abb55a55f375b3192f2cdd6b5


So we've gone from "He had alternatives" to "He had alternatives over a week after it became a serious problem and after the nursing homes were likely already infected, and then if federal red tape was easily navigated"

Much weaker claim to responsibility than most are making, but with that weakness comes a much more reasonable position lol

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Mar 3 2021 10:31am
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#48
Mar 3 2021 10:33am
Quote (Skinned @ 3 Mar 2021 17:21)
Why are you bothering with them?


Why are you not reading the posts in this thread. I showed, with plenty of sources, that additional hospital beds including the necessary staff were available in New York for 5 of the 6 weeks during which Cuomo's nursing home directive was in effect; and that the main reason why these beds went unused was red tape and organizational failures within the responsibility of New York officials.

To quote myself:
"The bottom line is that we cannot pin each and every nursing home deaths which resulted from admitted covid patients on Cuomo, but that we definitely cannot clear him from having significant amounts of blood on his hands either."

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#49
Mar 3 2021 10:42am
Quote (Thor123422 @ 3 Mar 2021 17:31)
So we've gone from "He had alternatives" to "He had alternatives over a week after it became a serious problem and after the nursing homes were likely already infected, and then if federal red tape was easily navigated"

Much weaker claim to responsibility than most are making, but with that weakness comes a much more reasonable position lol

A nuanced view at an issue is necessarily weaker in its assertions, but closer to the truth. This kind of differentiation isn't in fashion these days, it just doesnt produce snappy campaign slogans or traction on social media.

But just for the record: Skinned and you are just as guilty of this kind of lack of differentiation in this debate. Arriving at the conclusion that it's all the fault of orange man bad based on one instance (the navy ship) where Trump fucked around is just as undifferentiated as the other side painting Cuomo as the grim reaper.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Mar 3 2021 10:42am
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#50
Mar 3 2021 10:45am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 3 2021 10:42am)
A nuanced view at an issue is necessarily weaker in its assertions, but closer to the truth. This kind of differentiation isn't in fashion these days, it just doesnt produce snappy campaign slogans or traction on social media.

But just for the record: Skinned and you are just as guilty of this kind of lack of differentiation in this debate. Arriving at the conclusion that it's all the fault of orange man bad based on one instance (the navy ship) where Trump fucked around is just as undifferentiated as the other side painting Cuomo as the grim reaper.


Trump is the commander and chief of the military. It is literally at his discretion to open The Comfort for Covid patients. He could have made one call and it would have opened. That situation is absolutely black and white so you can just eat shit on that point.

I've never once claimed Cuomo did everything right. I've been asking for literally a year for what Cuomo could have done differently, and this is the only time somebody's shown anything he could have done better, and it amounts to "better navigate federal red tape to house elderly patients at the temporary hospital that wasn't operational until the nursing homes were likely already infected". That's a reasonable position, but doesn't paint Cuomo as evil or even particularly incompetent compared to the rest of the nation. He got shafted with the worst situation in the country, and didn't handle things the best he could have.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Mar 3 2021 10:47am
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