Not familiar with the history of Taiwan, I take it? The pre-CCP government of China, the ROC, governs Taiwan, and claims to be the true government of China. The CCP governs China, and claims to govern Taiwan, while allowing the ROC to maintain local governing power. This, to the CCP, is simply a continuation of the Chinese Civil War, and it doesn't particularly matter to them if other nations recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation or not.

I fully support the EU, Australia, and potentially Russia forming a coalition force to help defend Taiwan, as it's in the economic interests of all the above to do so. I do not support such wartime efforts from the United States. Our economic interests will not be served by shedding blood for Taiwan, or maintaining a defensive force on behalf of Taiwan. On the contrary, Taiwan has a monopoly on some specialized chip manufacturing that would help the US if the CCP took control, and expanded production. If you wish to make a moral argument regarding, "They'll throw them in concentration camps like they did the Uyghurs!" I'm willing to listen. I see no evidence that they'd do so, as they haven't in Hong Kong. But happy to listen.

China made their choice back in the 50s to not invade Taiwan. At this point, the countries have diverged so much that we shouldn't allow either country to invade the other because it would create global instability.

Why is it up to "us" to allow or disallow anything? "We" are not on the same Continent, and it serves our best interest not to become directly involved.

I have many, MANY issues with China. Their squabbles with Taiwan, who they consider to be a part of China, is not one of them. It is quite literally not our problem. It would, however, become a mild problem for the EU, and a severe issue for Russia and Australia. Russia and China are currently only a pindrop away from open war, and China and Australia already have open sanctions against each other. For China to take over Taiwan's chip manufacturing would be directly against the self-interest of both Australia and Russia. And it's impact on a lot of modern EU engineering efforts would be huge, giving China more leverage over the EU than they've ever before had.

Again, my reasons against US intervention in this matter are consistent with a Pro-America anti-war stance. On the flipside, I wouldn't bat an eye if a Russia/EU/Australia coalition was formed to defend Taiwan. Hell, I encourage it even. China is not your friend, but they are your neighbor, be very cautious how you allow them to expand.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 22 2021 04:47pm

I am familiar with it's history, I've actually been to Taiwan. Stayed there for weeks, including visiting history museums. Have you?

KMT these days are not comparable to the party under Chiang Kai-shek's authoritarian rule, to suggest otherwise would be ignorant and false. It's a functioning democracy with effective state status, what happened 70 years ago is not particularly relevant in the context of self determination

You've also missed the point, who said anything about 'economic interests'? It's a fight between democracy and authoritarianism, plus controlling the south china sea provides the basis to mount invasions of nearby countries with territorial claims

Based on that logic, we should have let the Nazis take over Western Europe. We are a great power and with that comes great responsibility. Because of that, almost EVERYTHING is our problem. Don't be such a selfish prick.

LOL. And "North Korea" and "South Korea" are two nations too, right? Oh wait. The Korean War is ongoing and has merely been existing in a state of Armistice for the last 68 years. As it turns out, what happened 70 years ago DOES matter, and what the rest of the world thinks about Chinese politics doesn't matter to the CCP.

As far as the fight for "Democracy vs Authoritarianism" goes, that's just laughable. First, how well did that realistically work in Korea, Vietnam, and elsewhere? For that matter, who are the United States to speak about "Authoritarianism" when our capitol is locked down under martial law for no reason, and the current administration is talking about locking down 98% of the nation under strict lockdowns over a cold? And the US has no claim to the South China Sea. This is, again, a Eurasian conflict, that Australia has a great interest in as well, not an American conflict. If those involved wish to stymy the decisions of the CCP, they should do so. America's war against socialism and communism have failed. Far from "winning" we've gone far closer to the Authoritarian ideal ourselves. We are nobody to throw stones.



Is your argument now that we should simply attack China over the Uyghur Concentration Camps? If so, that's an argument I could potentially see having some form of moral ground. Though I don't know how you'd justify causing mass death to a population of some 1.5+ billion people over a dozen million.

The idea that "because we have great power, we must utilize global authoritarianism" would put the US on par with the Nazis, mate. Your ideology is dangerous and flawed. They're sovereign nations and they can deal with their squabbles as they see fit. If the UN wishes to pass a "Defense of Taiwan" resolution that requires a defense force be assembled, so be it. Go the legal route. And for that resolution, I would still not support "majority US forces". We're not directly hindered by China/Taiwan issues. It's not about being "selfish". It's about "They're sovereign nations, as are we. Our job is not to govern other sovereign nations, but instead to attempt to negotiate to avoid conflict in the first place."

I don't think we should attack China over the concentration camps, but I think we should have some severe sanctions put in place. We should deter such behavior because it makes the world a much worse place.

You're a fucking idiot if you think that trying to prevent a war between China and Taiwan is equivalent to what the Nazis did. It's the exact opposite you moron.

What sanctions would you support? When Trump talked about sanctions, and implemented even minor sanctions, the left cried racist and xenophobe. Exactly what form of sanction is acceptable? And how much would US business that operates in China suffer due to said sanctions?

As it stands right now (I've pointed this out before), the only reason that everything from chip manufacturing to PPE to clothes to food to you name it that the US conducts in China, using Chinese labor exists as US production is because... We're there, and not sanctioning them. The only reason China gives a nod to US patent law is because we're there, and they benefit. Say the US pulls all business from China, and sanctions them. Their production won't stop, they'll simply stop adhering to US patent law. And they won't allow the destruction of fabrication facilities, production plants, or anything else. They'll mass incarcerate anyone who attempts to destroy their infrastructure. It'd be tantamount to war.

Perhaps we sanction them by refusing to sell them coal? Well, that'd suck. We receive the majority of our raw steel from China, and you cannot produce steel without coal. Our #1 status in steel manufactured goods would go away, prices would skyrocket, and simple cheap goods would become dear. Not to mention that coal is the #1 source of power in China, so you'd be sentencing potentially hundreds of millions of people to freeze/overheat/not have power for medical machines, etc. You want to be responsible for that kind of mass death?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your viewpoint is incorrect, merely that your suggested course of action completely ignores everything it implies, and is far too generalized to hold any true meaning.

It worked out very well in Korea - do you even realise how stupid that statement is? South Korea, a thriving democracy, would be a third world country under a brutal dictatorship if not for Western intervention. The North Korean army were about 30 miles away from Busan before being pushed back by US tanks

Vietnam is another great example, I mean, invading a country to stop the spread of communism can really have parallels drawn to a country that requests international recognition and assistance; where 90%+ of its populace want either full independence from China or the status quo of independence

I've realised you don't have a carefully weighted argument or one that's relevant to the political climate at all - you're applying the brainless libertarian ideological viewpoint that intervening in conflicts is wrong 100% of the time, regardless of the context. Hundreds of thousands of Tutsi could be getting massacred with machetes and you'd be like, 'we have no economic interest there, we have no right to lecture the Hutu on how they exercise their machete-wielding rights'

This post was edited by dro94 on Feb 22 2021 06:01pm

A war with Taiwan would be great. It would give an excuse to send China to the stone age.

Its arguably the only reason China hasnt done it yet.

This post was edited by EndlessSky on Feb 22 2021 06:15pm