Quote (InsaneBobb @ Dec 24 2020 03:11pm)

If there is no benefit to invest, why should anyone invest?

Quote (Thor123422 @ Dec 24 2020 02:50pm)

Just listened to the playlist and yeah, I agree with most of it.

The way we have society now is fraught with inefficiency because it relies on terrible hierarchy, and we should get rid of most of it. I think the idea that hierarchy should be abolished unless it is justified is like, tautologically correct. My boss absolutely has a reason to be above me. He has more expertise, writes the grants, etc. etc. However there's not really a reason for his boss to be above him. His boss is just an administrator who hasn't seen a patient in tens of years or done research in about as long. Similarly there's no reason why Jeff Bezos should have as much ownership of Amazon as he does. If he died tomorrow the company would continue as though nothing happened, same with Elon Musk, Bill Gates, or any billionaire. They deserve to be rewarded for doing things, but the idea that they have a justified hierarchy over their average worker because they are an "owner" is pretty ridiculous. They set the ball in motion, but at a certain point they become basically irrelevant.

So... I'd say I'm "anarchy-lite", in that the fundamentals are obviously correct, but the actual implementation and organization of such a modern society would be difficult and I can't say how best to do that.

Quote (Bazi @ Dec 24 2020 03:44pm)

Agree with you with exception to tony elon stark

Quote (Thor123422 @ Dec 24 2020 03:50pm)

Just listened to the playlist and yeah, I agree with most of it.

The way we have society now is fraught with inefficiency because it relies on terrible hierarchy, and we should get rid of most of it. I think the idea that hierarchy should be abolished unless it is justified is like, tautologically correct. My boss absolutely has a reason to be above me. He has more expertise, writes the grants, etc. etc. However there's not really a reason for his boss to be above him. His boss is just an administrator who hasn't seen a patient in tens of years or done research in about as long. Similarly there's no reason why Jeff Bezos should have as much ownership of Amazon as he does. If he died tomorrow the company would continue as though nothing happened, same with Elon Musk, Bill Gates, or any billionaire. They deserve to be rewarded for doing things, but the idea that they have a justified hierarchy over their average worker because they are an "owner" is pretty ridiculous. They set the ball in motion, but at a certain point they become basically irrelevant.

So... I'd say I'm "anarchy-lite", in that the fundamentals are obviously correct, but the actual implementation and organization of such a modern society would be difficult and I can't say how best to do that.

Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 24 2020 06:27pm)

Those ideas aren't grounded in reality.

The implementation and organization of the society you're thinking of is not possible because knowledge, skill, wealth, power, experience, status and resources naturally concentrate in the hands of ambitious people as they attempt to do great things and groups/cliques and subsequently hierarchies form along those lines.

You can see examples of attempts at this within companies. Go to glassdoor and look up valve to see employee reviews on what it's like to work within a flat organization. Ive worked at these orgs before, its always a politically toxic environment.

Quote (SylvesterStallone @ Dec 25 2020 08:13am)

just rent without furniture included?
in germany, you will rarely ever find an apartment that's furnished, same in canada.
you get empty place that you can decorate the way you like, but if you trash anything, it's gonna be ur own things.^^

Quote (Thor123422 @ Dec 24 2020 09:20pm)

The idea isn't to eliminate hierarchy but to make sure its justified. An owner class living off their ownership isn't justified IMO.

Theres highly successful companies like Valve and lots of coops that implement this. That you think its politically toxic is irrelevant. Theyre also implemented in the current system, the idea would be to remove hierarchies from society structurally as well so these things happen more organically too.

So these ideas are grounded in reality because its not a total rejection of hierarchy. All the hierarchy is that serve a purpose and would be beneficial would be kept

Quote (duffman316 @ Dec 24 2020 09:00pm)

valve is the perfect example of a failed attempt to implement this, if you don't see it you just need to spend some time googling it or just look at the reviews on glassdoor

they have a cancerously toxic culture because these unjustified hierarchies exist anyway yet they aren't transparent and you can be let go without any checks/balances because there are none like the kinds of checks/balances that could be found in organizations with a traditional hierarchy

honestly you're working in a much better place than valve, this is your first job right?

Quote (Thor123422 @ Dec 24 2020 07:09pm)

Lol no. Ive been working for over 10 years. The only time I wasnt employed was when I was in medical school.

I mean, thats an example of it being implemented poorly. Theres plenty of toxic workplaces with those features with hierarchies. You're getting caught up on some weird things dude. There are legitimate hierarchies in the workplace.

Quote (proccy @ Dec 24 2020 09:23pm)

is there something about hierarchies themselves that offends you, or do you believe that they should be re-structured. or do you believe that a system is possible without them