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Oct 29 2020 08:27pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 29 2020 10:22pm)
It should be legal to have multiple unions in the same shop - private sector.
It should be illegal to have any union in a shop - public sector.


I just can't support discrimination against government workers. I don't understand why their Bill of Rights should be diminished because their jobs are affected by voting. It's a weird discrimination and unjustified.
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Oct 29 2020 08:35pm
Quote (Skinned @ Oct 29 2020 09:27pm)
I just can't support discrimination against government workers. I don't understand why their Bill of Rights should be diminished because their jobs are affected by voting. It's a weird discrimination and unjustified.


Because government workers provide critical public services that should not get to be withheld over contract demands. And also because the union is a competitive enterprise forcing the hand of a non-competitor who also happens to be able to take as much as it wants by force.
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Oct 29 2020 08:37pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 29 2020 10:35pm)
Because government workers provide critical public services that should not get to be withheld over contract demands. And also because the union is a competitive enterprise forcing the hand of a non-competitor who also happens to be able to take as much as it wants by force.


But it doesn't work out like that. For example IRS employees make reasonable amounts of money not astronomical. Firemen have a union and they get paid in the teens per hour to run into burning buildings. They should have stronger unions.

There is excess. Teachers and police shouldn't be able to go on strike, but they have and will again.
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Oct 29 2020 08:40pm
Quote (Skinned @ Oct 29 2020 09:37pm)
But it doesn't work out like that. For example IRS employees make reasonable amounts of money not astronomical. Firemen have a union and they get paid in the teens per hour to run into burning buildings. They should have stronger unions.

There is excess. Teachers and police shouldn't be able to go on strike, but they have and will again.


Should the military be able to unionize, and go on strike if their demands aren't met?
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Oct 29 2020 08:40pm
Quote (Skinned @ Oct 29 2020 07:37pm)
But it doesn't work out like that. For example IRS employees make reasonable amounts of money not astronomical. Firemen have a union and they get paid in the teens per hour to run into burning buildings. They should have stronger unions.

There is excess. Teachers and police shouldn't be able to go on strike, but they have and will again.


not sure about USA how often your teachers strike. Here it happens with almost regularity

Never heard of a police strike (here) (although some buzzings lately from the USA)

when was the last police strike in the USA and when was the last teacher strike is my question I should get better at clarifying

This post was edited by proccy on Oct 29 2020 08:41pm
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Oct 29 2020 08:44pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 29 2020 10:40pm)
Should the military be able to unionize, and go on strike if their demands aren't met?


No strike. Military is also different than civilian work it is a warrior cult so it just isn't the same thing. You don't have to be a teacher for four year enlistments or be punished by a draconian code but if you're just talking theoretical then no strike.

Quote (proccy @ Oct 29 2020 10:40pm)
not sure about USA how often your teachers strike. Here it happens with almost regularity

Never heard of a police strike (although some buzzings lately from the USA)


Police have striked in Cincinnati during the last big riots here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

They drove their cars, parked with their sirens on at city hall, and left. They called it a slowdown and it was in response to creating a committee to monitor police shootings and enhanced trainings:

Quote
The incidents again strained the relationship between the police and residents of the city's minority communities.[6] In 2002, the city signed an agreement for initiatives to improve police service to minority communities, revise use-of-force guidelines and form a committee for community policing initiatives.[1]

CPD officers began an unofficial work slowdown, which coincided with a rise in violent crime in the downtown area.[1] In 2001 and 2002, violent crime and property crime rates rose in the city, with property crime rates peaking in 2003 before declining through 2010.[19] The city has a crime rate higher than the national average but similar to other major cities.[20] Initiatives were subsequently begun by community groups to reduce violence.[21]


There was a curfew in the city here:

Quote
The morning of April 13, Cincinnati Mayor Charles J. Luken announced a citywide curfew from 8 p.m. to 6 a.m. for all but work travelers. He also declared a state of emergency and brought in 125 Ohio Highway Patrol troopers to assist with policing. In all, 800 people were arrested for violating curfew conditions.[2] This curfew did not extend to the city's suburbs, prompting some criticism from Cincinnati residents of uneven enforcement of the curfew.[16]


It was for us urbanites.

Quote
April 14 was the day of Timothy Thomas' funeral. Police kept a helicopter airborne and stationed police two blocks from the service.[4] About 2,000 protesters began a peaceful march downtown following the service.[1] A procession of 30 from the funeral marched to the intersection of Elm and Liberty streets. A group of seven law enforcement personnel arrived in patrol cruisers and fired bean bag ammunition into a crowd of 20, injuring four, including two children. Police contended they were acting under orders to disperse a large crowd blocking the intersection, while witnesses claimed the police did not provide warning and singled out black members of the group.[4]


Police attacked the funeral procession. Lawl.

Same old shit in America. But they will change thistime.

The police would also protect the cross erected by the KKK on Fountain Square throughout my childhood:



This post was edited by Skinned on Oct 29 2020 08:51pm
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Oct 29 2020 08:50pm
Quote (Skinned @ Oct 29 2020 07:44pm)

Police have striked in Cincinnati during the last big riots here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

.


did not find the word strike in the document

also google did not help. even though i put the words Police Strike Cincinnati every result doesn't have the word Strike lol
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Oct 29 2020 08:52pm
Quote (proccy @ Oct 29 2020 10:50pm)
did not find the word strike in the document

also google did not help. even though i put the words Police Strike Cincinnati every result doesn't have the word Strike lol


Striking is illegal, so it was called a slowdown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slowdown

So strike-lite. You show up, but you make things shittier instead of do your job in good faith.

It was called a strike at the time, on the news and in house holds where it was happening.

Here, strike is spelled out in this 1979 police strike article about my city's deadbeat cops: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/crime/crime-and-courts/2019/05/08/1979-cincinnati-ohio-police-strike-racial-tensions/1110386001/

This post was edited by Skinned on Oct 29 2020 08:53pm
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Oct 29 2020 08:53pm
Quote (Skinned @ Oct 29 2020 07:52pm)
Striking is illegal, so it was called a slowdown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slowdown

So strike-lite. You show up, but you make things shittier instead of do your job in good faith.


ah ty found some articles now

our paramedics did this pretty recently, i understand now ty


i should add that about 25% of our total news in canada is about unions and strikes LOL

This post was edited by proccy on Oct 29 2020 08:54pm
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Oct 29 2020 09:02pm
Quote (proccy @ Oct 29 2020 10:53pm)
ah ty found some articles now

our paramedics did this pretty recently, i understand now ty


i should add that about 25% of our total news in canada is about unions and strikes LOL


Yes, they have excess and largess for themselves at the higher ranks and that causes a lot of problems. Their needs to be limitations as to what sorts of things they can bargain for and not a blank check to hold their managers ransom. There needs to be tangible grievances as well, safety issues, and not just "we wish to make more money".

Teacher's striking for example is a big problem. Also anybody striking is not coming to work and the employer should have the ultimate right to fire somebody for that. But the whole strength in numbers thing...a union is only relevant if the vast majority of the worker body at least has a quorum moving in a direction. Also things have to be pretty bad for people to do things outside of work for work. When I get off I don't want to see those people, talk about work stuff.

Even with unions I bet Canada still has a lot of rich guys.

This post was edited by Skinned on Oct 29 2020 09:02pm
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