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Sep 20 2020 06:14pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 20 Sep 2020 19:51)
That's actually exactly what he's saying. That these instances are specifically caused by climate change, that they cost money, and that the GND (which will stop these things) is cheap by comparison.

can you imagine giving $2 trillion or whatever the number is to the government to hand out the green companies they deem “appropriate”. better off burning the money for “clean energy”
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Sep 20 2020 06:23pm
Quote (excellence @ Sep 20 2020 07:14pm)
can you imagine giving $2 trillion or whatever the number is to the government to hand out the green companies they deem “appropriate”. better off burning the money for “clean energy”


Considering there was a trillion dollars of quantative easing in March I'd say giving 2 trillion to green companies would be a better use of our money
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Sep 20 2020 06:34pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 20 Sep 2020 20:23)
Considering there was a trillion dollars of quantative easing in March I'd say giving 2 trillion to green companies would be a better use of our money

the government is inefficient when it comes to allocating taxpayer money to private companies.

feel free to write a check to your favorite green energy companies. pale pasty privileged lefties never seem to realize they’re capable of doing so
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Sep 21 2020 04:39am
I have a minor question for the science-denying communists in this thread: How is burning wood better than burning fossil fuels like natural gas or oil?

Bear with me here for just a moment. A dead tree is comprised of roughly 97% carbon. That percentage can be as high as 99%, and dip as low as like 89% depending on the wood. But yeah, nearly all carbon. If you want that carbon to remain inert, you work it, turn it into something like furniture, where you've sealed all that beautiful carbon in, and turned it into something useful. On the flipside... Should you choose to burn that tree, several things happen. First, more (by quite a bit) CO2 is released into the atmosphere than with natural gas, oil, or even coal. Second, due to the fact that you're merely burning, not incinerating, a considerable amount of CO (carbon monoxide, a true pollutant, poison gas) is emitted. Third, less energy, be it heat for a home or electricity, is generated.

The GND doesn't address that heat and power have to come from somewhere. Merely reduces the sources they can come from. Burning wood isn't precluded. Burning cleaner and more efficient fuels such as natural gas, which are BETTER for the environment, are. So, how is your solution scientific? As the so-called "pro-science" crowd, have you bothered to analyze any of the science?
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Sep 21 2020 04:56am
Quote (InsaneBobb @ 21 Sep 2020 06:39)
I have a minor question for the science-denying communists in this thread: How is burning wood better than burning fossil fuels like natural gas or oil?

Bear with me here for just a moment. A dead tree is comprised of roughly 97% carbon. That percentage can be as high as 99%, and dip as low as like 89% depending on the wood. But yeah, nearly all carbon. If you want that carbon to remain inert, you work it, turn it into something like furniture, where you've sealed all that beautiful carbon in, and turned it into something useful. On the flipside... Should you choose to burn that tree, several things happen. First, more (by quite a bit) CO2 is released into the atmosphere than with natural gas, oil, or even coal. Second, due to the fact that you're merely burning, not incinerating, a considerable amount of CO (carbon monoxide, a true pollutant, poison gas) is emitted. Third, less energy, be it heat for a home or electricity, is generated.

The GND doesn't address that heat and power have to come from somewhere. Merely reduces the sources they can come from. Burning wood isn't precluded. Burning cleaner and more efficient fuels such as natural gas, which are BETTER for the environment, are. So, how is your solution scientific? As the so-called "pro-science" crowd, have you bothered to analyze any of the science?


You're right in that its releasing the same carbon. It's generally seen as more carbon neutral to burn wood because it's easily replaced by planting new trees. Also, the carbon in trees is from a more recent time whereas the carbon in coal was sequestered many thousands of years ago.

As for the carbon monoxide, it reacts with other compounds in the atmosphere and is converted to CO2 fairly quickly.

In general I wouldnt say biomass, natural gas, or coal are particularly good ways of generating electricity these days.

This post was edited by SmallBalls on Sep 21 2020 04:57am
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Sep 21 2020 05:07am
Quote (SmallBalls @ Sep 21 2020 03:56am)
You're right in that its releasing the same carbon. It's generally seen as more carbon neutral to burn wood because it's easily replaced by planting new trees. Also, the carbon in trees is from a more recent time whereas the carbon in coal was sequestered many thousands of years ago.

As for the carbon monoxide, it reacts with other compounds in the atmosphere and is converted to CO2 fairly quickly.

In generally I wouldnt say biomass, natural gas, or coal are particularly good ways of generating electricity these days.


You've conflated two topics in a way to make most of what you say either false or irrelevant.

1. Burning wood does not emit "the same" carbon as burning natural gas, oil, or coal, it emits MORE. A sizeable amount more. Many times more, when compared with natural gas, specifically, which goes through multiple processes to extract carbon and use it for other things (such as the production of plastic) to specifically prevent burning it in the first place.

2. In a city with 10 million people, if every single person has to heat their home on a dark winter night by burning wood, there's going to be so much carbon monoxide in the air that people will literally get sick and die overnight. That's what pollution was. That's what the EPA was created by the Nixon administration to stop (along with industrial heavy metal dumping and a variety of other equally terrible things). You don't even know what you're talking about.

3. Coal, then oil, then natural gas are successors to wood as sources of heat, power, and fuel. They're successors not because they're "cheaper". Once you remove the environmental regulation, wood's far cheaper than oil or natural gas. And in the US, where only a tiny fraction of the landmass is utilized in the first place, there's plenty enough land. No, other fuel methods are used because they can be used without wholesale murdering any centralized population due to incredibly high pollution levels. The problem when it comes to "clean" energy is that the cleanest is nuclear, but due to meltdown fears, that's not viable. The next is hydroelectric (think dams), which kills fishies, so also bad. Then you get to solar and wind, and the carbon footprint on both is nearly as high as the savings, because of the energy required to produce them, and the energy output is only slightly higher than the input. Add in that they're unreliable sources of power, and you run into rolling blackouts like California has been experiencing the last month or two.

No, I want ACTUAL science. Literally, right now. You simply can NOT promote trash like the GND which promotes destroying the only stable sources of power we have without knowingly and willfully promoting the widespread deforestation of the entire planet just to get people through the winter. :)

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Sep 21 2020 05:08am
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Sep 21 2020 07:03am
Quote (InsaneBobb @ 21 Sep 2020 07:07)
You've conflated two topics in a way to make most of what you say either false or irrelevant.

1. Burning wood does not emit "the same" carbon as burning natural gas, oil, or coal, it emits MORE. A sizeable amount more. Many times more, when compared with natural gas, specifically, which goes through multiple processes to extract carbon and use it for other things (such as the production of plastic) to specifically prevent burning it in the first place.

2. In a city with 10 million people, if every single person has to heat their home on a dark winter night by burning wood, there's going to be so much carbon monoxide in the air that people will literally get sick and die overnight. That's what pollution was. That's what the EPA was created by the Nixon administration to stop (along with industrial heavy metal dumping and a variety of other equally terrible things). You don't even know what you're talking about.

3. Coal, then oil, then natural gas are successors to wood as sources of heat, power, and fuel. They're successors not because they're "cheaper". Once you remove the environmental regulation, wood's far cheaper than oil or natural gas. And in the US, where only a tiny fraction of the landmass is utilized in the first place, there's plenty enough land. No, other fuel methods are used because they can be used without wholesale murdering any centralized population due to incredibly high pollution levels. The problem when it comes to "clean" energy is that the cleanest is nuclear, but due to meltdown fears, that's not viable. The next is hydroelectric (think dams), which kills fishies, so also bad. Then you get to solar and wind, and the carbon footprint on both is nearly as high as the savings, because of the energy required to produce them, and the energy output is only slightly higher than the input. Add in that they're unreliable sources of power, and you run into rolling blackouts like California has been experiencing the last month or two.

No, I want ACTUAL science. Literally, right now. You simply can NOT promote trash like the GND which promotes destroying the only stable sources of power we have without knowingly and willfully promoting the widespread deforestation of the entire planet just to get people through the winter. :)


Lol not reading that trash :rofl:
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Sep 21 2020 07:11am
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 21 2020 05:39am)
I have a minor question for the science-denying communists in this thread: How is burning wood better than burning fossil fuels like natural gas or oil?

Bear with me here for just a moment. A dead tree is comprised of roughly 97% carbon. That percentage can be as high as 99%, and dip as low as like 89% depending on the wood. But yeah, nearly all carbon. If you want that carbon to remain inert, you work it, turn it into something like furniture, where you've sealed all that beautiful carbon in, and turned it into something useful. On the flipside... Should you choose to burn that tree, several things happen. First, more (by quite a bit) CO2 is released into the atmosphere than with natural gas, oil, or even coal. Second, due to the fact that you're merely burning, not incinerating, a considerable amount of CO (carbon monoxide, a true pollutant, poison gas) is emitted. Third, less energy, be it heat for a home or electricity, is generated.

The GND doesn't address that heat and power have to come from somewhere. Merely reduces the sources they can come from. Burning wood isn't precluded. Burning cleaner and more efficient fuels such as natural gas, which are BETTER for the environment, are. So, how is your solution scientific? As the so-called "pro-science" crowd, have you bothered to analyze any of the science?


Have fun powering a city on wood
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Sep 21 2020 07:20am
Quote (SmallBalls @ Sep 21 2020 06:03am)
Lol not reading that trash :rofl:


So uh...

Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 21 2020 06:11am)
Have fun powering a city on wood


This person and I never agree. You may want to rethink your stance when we do. :)
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