it's not like the only possible replacement for miller was someone who is equally despicable, just more competent and successful in implementing his white nationalist agenda - so i prefer the version where such people are ostracised and removed from prominent government positions, with a clear message that the overwhelming majority of people in BOTH parties don't support such hateful ideologies.

speaks volumes about what to expect from this president, when people start rationalising scum like miller as likely the lesser evil amongst those that trump would make his senior political advisor...


also, what would you advise dems to do, if demanding his resignation is 'cringy and meek'?

spotlight, write stories about him, voice displeasure, etc. basically what they are doing minus pompously demanding someone who doesnt work for you leaves their job.

and yeah, i dont trust Trump to replace him with someone more reasonable. just more sneaky. as has been his pattern.

you've now described it as 'pompous, cringy, and meek' - but i think that demanding him to step down, and communicating why in unmistakable terms, is much stronger and much more sincere than just 'writing stories' and 'voicing displeasure'. i honestly don't see the 'cringe' part in it, could you point me to a specific example to illustrate please?
imo, demanding ppl to step down for their failings is simply what you do if you don't have the power to fire them. i would even say it's the only reasonable and principled thing to do in such a situation, and certainly nothing unusual or even unheard of.

seriously, that whole argument sounds a bit like criticism for the sake of it to me...

This post was edited by fender on Nov 14 2019 10:49am

Stephen eats spiders. Ive seen it.

miller is doing what Trump wants. Trump is his boss. Miller hasnt done anything illegal for him to get removed via that type of process.

so you have a group of dems who hate Trump/Miller demanding he step down for doing Trump/Miller things. Trump hired Steve Bannon to run his campaign for fuck's sake.

it's like a group of vegans demanding a KFC manager quit for serving meat.

To label someone a racist, I want to see a stringent pattern of racist behavior, not just some few instances of it.

This is particularly true for someone like Trump, who has been a public figure and under lots of scrutiny for basically his entire adult life and who has a paper trail about 300 times as long as Average Joe.




------



Regarding Miller: the underlying issue here is that Trump's stances on immigration were one of the reasons why he became president. If Trump hadnt shared the same concern and disapproval towards illegal immigration and muslims immigration as millions of Republican voters, he would never have won the Republican primary. Hillary would have wiped the floor with Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz, and be sitting in the White House today. Trump's brand as someone who's tough on immigration is a vital part of his appeal. A senior policy advisor to such a president more or less has to be on his side on his trademark issues, i.e. be an immigration hawk.

Miller's beliefs often times go a bit too far and veer into white nationalism. But since the boundary between anti-illegal-immigration sentiment and outright xenopobia is kinda fuzzy, it is hard to find someone who's as much of an immigration hawk as Trump's senior advisor has to be while having a flawless track record. Miller is a very suboptimal figure, don't get me wrong, but I think you're underselling how hard it would be for Trump to find a fitting replacement for Miller who has a clean sheet.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 14 2019 10:56am

you don't see me suggesting that it's ILLEGAL to be a white nationalist, however, i was arguing under the assumption that you were serious when you said that someone like that 'shouldn't be in the white house' - i thought that we were in agreement that his ideology is widely rejected amongst people of both parties, and not just a matter comparable with personal diet decision...

the fact that trump loves to surround himself with white nationalists, and will probably not fire them if he doesn't get backlash from his own party and donors, doesn't make it inherently 'cringy' or 'meek' to demand their removal from public office - but maybe you have a concrete example to support that characterisation.



yes, i already know that you don't want to call trump a racist. just like you totally wouldn't have called obama a racist, had he rejected white judges because of their race, had he discriminated against white renters in his past, had he relentlessly pushed birther conspiracies, or suggested that white immigrants were predominantly criminals...

you know who is under 'lots of scrutiny' and does NOT have a long list of racist behaviour, statements, and beliefs on their record? literally every public figure who isn't a racist. mindblowing, huh?

i didnt suggest u did say it was illegal, that bit is in contrast to reality. IF he did something illegal dems might have ammo to demand trump oust him. since he hasnt its up to trump. and we all know what he'll do.

You seem very focused on what i find cringey and want me to somehow factually back it? there is no such thing as inherantly cringey or meek. there's both subjective. an ant is meek when trying to lift a car, but mighty when lifting a pebble. some people find disc golf cringey, its my favorite sport. thus is life.

I, thesnipa@d2jsp, find it cringey when you call for the resignation of someone doing their job in the exact fashion they can be expected to do it in. i also personally dont think he belongs there. but i am not his boss, so i cant call for his resignation with any real power. just as house democrats can't call for him to do anything with much power.

i have the same reaction when i see someone complaining in a store to a person who doesnt set store policy. its wasted breath.

nothing in this article from the OP should come as a surprise to anyone. its whitehouse business as usual. i wish it wasnt, but it is. i can not like him there and also think its silly to demand he leaves now that he is there. i dont like ben carson, but i dont see a reason he should resign for doing what trump wants him to do (nothing).

This post was edited by thesnipa on Nov 14 2019 11:23am

fair enough, guess i am just 'focused' on that because it sounds like a token jab at progressive dems, a concession in the spirit of bothsidesism, rather than a comprehensible criticism of what is essentially a principled stance on something that most people at least pretend to agree on.

of course it's neither particularly important nor something we could determine with 'objectivity' (i was honestly open to an example that we could agree on, thought i missed one maybe, because 'cringy' surely characterises many democratic responses to trump accurately imo) - but just claiming that without any context, while suggesting even weaker and and more ineffective responses instead, doesn't really help to dispel that initial impression.

i, fender@d2jsp simply don't think it's necessary to expect your demands to result in exactly your desired outcome, in order for them to not be a 'waste of breath'. remember, we're talking about congresspeople here, not random karens complaining about their expired coupons not being accepted. they represent a constituency, and they (ideally) stand for certain values. rejecting hateful ideologies like white nationalism, and demanding people who perpetuate them to be removed, is therefore not 'silly' or inherently 'cringy' imo - even if it doesn't succeed.


oh, and most importantly: there's absolutely and objectively nothing cringy about disc golf. obviously rooting for simon lizotte, but anyone who beats paul mcbeth is fine with me...

@ The bolded, 100%. with the regularity and wide range they constantly pepper trump with criticisms it comes off to me as disingenuous. its not that they aren't earnest all of the time, its that when u cry wolf every 5 minutes its hard to see the actual wolves.

Simon is a great guy, ive met him a few times at events and clinics. legit the most humble person ever for his ability level. Paul is actually similar, whereas most pros are complete and utter douche bags. Simon's accent (or lackthereof) is pretty amazing. he sounds like an american raised in a household that speaks german occasionally. great crossover player for promotion.