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Oct 28 2019 04:19pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 28 2019 06:14pm)
According to whom?


A panel of scientists handpicked by the World Health Organization
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Oct 28 2019 04:48pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 28 2019 04:53pm)
People tend to only want to defer to gender neutral pronouns if/when a transgender is present, and isn't something people typically would do/initiate but for their presence.

To use the example of a trans woman, there's different ways that someone can attempt to invalidate her gender, either by misgendering or degendering.

Misgendering says not only do I NOT see you as a woman, but I see you as a man, and will therefore refer to you using the pronoun "he".

Degendering says that I do NOT see you as a woman, but I'm not going to go a step further and say you're a man outright, so I'll use the pronoun "they".


Underlying both situations is the commonality of NOT seeing that person as a woman. You can't really change that. A person who removes gender from their speech is at least being polite about it.
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Oct 28 2019 05:05pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 28 2019 03:48pm)
Underlying both situations is the commonality of NOT seeing that person as a woman. You can't really change that. A person who removes gender from their speech is at least being polite about it.


I don't think that something is polite by virtue of it being less malicious.
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Oct 28 2019 05:18pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 28 2019 07:05pm)
I don't think that something is polite by virtue of it being less malicious.


Why is it malicious
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Oct 28 2019 05:47pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ 29 Oct 2019 01:05)
I don't think that something is polite by virtue of it being less malicious.


How would you define "politeness"?

Isnt "hiding your true opinions and feelings in cases where you know they would hurt the other person" a textbook example of politeness?

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Oct 28 2019 05:47pm
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Oct 28 2019 05:48pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Oct 28 2019 06:05pm)
I don't think that something is polite by virtue of it being less malicious.


What's the polite way of address while simultaneously not engaging in lying?
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Oct 28 2019 05:50pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Oct 28 2019 07:18pm)
Why is it malicious


These people want to force you into a corner. You are either with them or you are a bigot.
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Oct 28 2019 05:56pm
Quote (Santara @ Oct 28 2019 07:48pm)
What's the polite way of address while simultaneously not engaging in lying?


I call scaly a she even though i think hes a he out of courtesy because he asked and small lie doesn't bother me but it probably helps with his mental self image

I just realized im a really nice person 🤔
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Oct 28 2019 06:04pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Oct 28 2019 06:56pm)
I call scaly a she even though i think hes a he out of courtesy because he asked and small lie doesn't bother me but it probably helps with his mental self image

I just realized im a really nice person 🤔


You're Canadian, it's been bred into you.
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Oct 28 2019 07:02pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Oct 28 2019 04:18pm)
Why is it malicious


It is from the perspective of whether you're invalidating someone's gender.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 28 2019 04:47pm)
How would you define "politeness"?

Isnt "hiding your true opinions and feelings in cases where you know they would hurt the other person" a textbook example of politeness?


I think it comes down to whether we associate something that is "more polite than doing X" = "polite". That's the cornerstone of this current conversation, I think. Is using "they" more polite than using "he"? Yes, and I would encourage someone to utilize the former rather than the latter 10/10 times. However, just because it's comparatively more polite doesn't necessarily mean that it's polite in and of itself.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Oct 28 2019 04:50pm)
These people want to force you into a corner. You are either with them or you are a bigot.


Calling people "bigots" or using gotcha' tactics isn't really my M.O.

Quote (Santara @ Oct 28 2019 04:48pm)
What's the polite way of address while simultaneously not engaging in lying?


I don't know that there is a way completely. There's merely gradation, and using "they" is certainly preferable to using "he" in such a situation.
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