That's the problem, you don't even care to hear the other side, you're so convinced you're right and the shit you see on TV is absolute truth that anything that challenges your western-centric perspective must be some sort of Russian propaganda.

The US has been funding Russian-opposition groups for awhile now. We have funded many NGO's in Russia that directly challenged many of Putins interests hence why they eventually clamped down on foreign funding of NGO's. I really wish you would pick up a book that elaborates on the modus operandi of our intelligence agencies during the cold war and even to this day. Truly shocking that the MSM isn't publicizing the clandestine activities of our intelligence services.

We funded Bin Laden to fight the Russians in the 80's, we funded various groups to overthrow democratically elected gov't in banana republics, we even funded known Jihadi groups in Syria that beheaded little boys and enslaved women but no, meddling in Russias domestic affairs is truly some far fetched fantasy. I'm guessing the CIA chief that was in Ukraine a week before the Maidan revolution was just sight seeing amiright?

Their propaganda campaign is a drop in the bucked in the impact it had on this election. Russia didn't decide Hillary was a shit candidate, the millions of voters that were turned off by her did that. Like i said identity-politics, the PC-culture are two things that played a much much larger role in getting Trump elected compared to the Russia Boogeyman.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Nov 2 2017 12:35pm

Russian troll factory posts sounds better ?

hey look what i found:



google keywords: EndlessSky false statement

The Russian allegations aren't amounting to much, Sauceman234234134523. They picked off a volunteer with a funny last name, and an ex campaign manager who had illegal activity before his tenure with your favorite president.

Collusion is not confirmed, and we don't have a smoking gun.

Investigation, thus far, as proven to show that this story is peddled by bitter leftists and MSM.

Please provide evidence otherwise, if you have any - which you don't.

google keywords: Sauceman234236345243 failed troll.

Let's focus on post-Cold War, since that's what Goom was talking about. He made an argument that Hillary making those statements was meddling in Russia's internal affairs and a major violation of diplomatic norms. I'm asking him to tell me why he thinks it's equivalent to what Russia did in our 2016 election. Furthermore, how is Russia's propaganda campaign(which may have existed before Hillary was running, and continued to exist after she lost) not an example of Russia meddling in our internal affairs?

Since you're so informed on this, post a link explaining it(or explain it yourself). What NGO's in Russia are dissident groups that she funded. Is that also a violation of norms? Did America not fund these sort of groups before Hillary took over as SoS? Did we stop funding them when she left?

Why do Trump supporters always conflate these things? Show me where I argued that Russian propaganda/interference in our election changed the outcome. It may or may not have, I just have the ridiculous notion(probably implanted by the MSM) that we should take steps to limit their propaganda/interference for future elections.

This post was edited by IceMage on Nov 2 2017 12:57pm

Putin accused her of both violating soverignty by making the direct accusations, and of funding dissident propaganda groups within Russia, which based on the state departments non-denial was probably a true charge.
That puts Putin's retaliation in line with a proportionate tit-for-tat.



Since the cold war? Mutual respect of sovereignty has been an unwritten understanding between the superpowers. The US, China and Russia are not supposed to aggressively meddle in one another's internal affairs. Creeping influence and willing corruption maybe, but its something Russia has abided by as much as we have, and god knows both the US-Soviet and US-Russian relations have been defined by tit-for-tat diplomatic spats over every strategic move or transgression.



Is it? If the 'propaganda' is truthfully exposing Hillary's own dirty dealings to suit his agenda?
It is by definition meddling, but meddling done in a proportionate and constrained manner. And its farr too convenient clever ironic punishment that put Putin's fingerprints on it from the get-go
You can debate the label you want to put to it or the ethics or morality or legal codes involved, but it is what it is and happened for a reason. I'm far more interested in the dynamics of what happened, why and how, than in how we classify it or spin it or fit it within a narrative. I just see cause and effect. Hillary does something, Putin does something.



I can safely say it had nothing to do with Trump for the same reason Pollster thought he could safely say Hillary had it in the bag- everyone thought Hillary had it in the bag
The idea that just leaking Hillary's emails could swing what looked like it should have been a cakewalk election would have been unthinkable over a year ago.

Putin had a person beef with Hillary and she openly acknowledged it and the cause for it, and that it was the direct reason for the meddling. Hillary's chickens coming home to roost aren't Trump's responsibility, and Putin couldn't dream she'd get pecked to death.



The democrats know full well Putin's reasoning, but they've proceeded with a farce first to discredit wikileaks, then to deflect from Trump's election and delegitimize the results, and then weaponized to try to overthrow Trump. The same Hillary Clinton who has acknowledged Putin was just out for revenge klingon-style still perpetuates a farcical accusation of Trump being somehow behind it.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Nov 2 2017 01:55pm

There's a lot of disagreements between what actually constitutes cyber warfare versus espionage and influence campaigns. No one would say that espionage or propaganda is warfare so I don't know why adding the word cyber before warfare would change that.

I am of the belief that the only acts of cyber warfare that we are aware of at this point in time are Stuxnet and the time NK's internet mysteriously went down for a few days after they hacked Sony.

/e



So if Russians posting on facebook is an act of war, what was Radio Free Europe?

This post was edited by murder567 on Nov 2 2017 02:15pm

Hi, im an American Trump supporter and i would give a special thanks to Russian Propaganda factories for interfering in our elections, promoting my candidate while insulting the other one, dividing america, because muh it was their right we did it too.

Again,

Thanks you Mr Putin
[*slurrrp* ]

Mrs may herself admitted a Russian interference in Brexit and directly called out Putin

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-13/may-tells-putin-the-u-k-is-ready-to-fight-back-against-threats

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/13/theresa-may-accuses-russia-of-interfering-in-elections-and-fake-news

Congratulations when the brexiter in chief herself admit it...
Figure out

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Nov 13 2017 08:42pm

never thought i'd see americans arguing on behalf of russian interests over american interests but here we are

Communist indoctrination works, comrade.