You spitting out that vitriol about all conservatives is more telling about the type person you are. You sound like a petulant, emotionally immature child.

Just so you know that "100% have no criminal record" is actually pure bullshit which makes me question the accuracy of the rest of his stats.

yes, those numbers show that it would not be helpful to deport all dreamers or DACA recipients. but a too broad immigration reform would retrospectively reward the criminal actions of their parents, i.e. the illegal border crossing. and it would incentivize future massive illegal immigration. illegal immigration whose impact on society is far less positive than that of the DACA recipients. and a too broad immigration reform would turn the political landscape on its head and, effectively, disenfranchise conservative voters for decades, if not forever. this is a huge NO-GO!

but those considerations are probably not what's driving people to oppose a naturalization of illegal immigrants, nah, it must be boneheaded racism.

there is only one sensible way forward: stop illegal immigration, grant the dreamers without a criminal record a path to permanent residency permits. what to do with the illegal immigrants who werent kids when they came into the country, but have been law-abiding members of society since then, is up for discussion.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 5 2017 12:08am

No, DACA does not influence future illegal immigration, it only applies to individuals who arrived before the year 2007 as children. In fact this has already been proven, since DACA was first passed illegal entries into the US have continued to decrease, and not increase.

if DACA recipients were naturalized, this would create incentives for future illegal immigration. thats what i meant.

This article is full of crap, or at best seriously misleading. It says there are 11 million illegal immigrants, and they pay $12 billion each year to state and local governments, NOT federal.
12 billion divided by 11 million is $1090.00 per year.
Not a lot when the math is done.

And then in the same article towards the bottom...





So we put the two together and we see the illegal immigrants pay only $1090 to state and local govts. and are a net drain on the Fed at just a bit over 50%.
Not so pretty when you do the math.




/e





And this article is just ludicrous.
There are 800,000 DACA kids, and the whole article and all it's "facts" are based not on anything official, but on a "survey" of ONLY 3,063 of the 800,000.

Puleeeze. :/

This post was edited by Ghot on Sep 5 2017 02:57am

as I said: illegal immigration as a whole has a negative effect. but I can very well imagine the subclass of DACA recipients being a net gain fiscally and for the society. I think DACA recipients are, at the very least, neutral in the costs they create and the taxes they pay.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 5 2017 03:00am

All the facts from the DACA article are crap, so even that may be suspect. A survey of 3,063 out of 800,000, is not very....telling.


/e I'd like to see some more "serious" research done about this. Which IMO does NOT mean a survey.
I do feel for these folks, but I'd still like to see some more authoritative research on the impact. Including whether they will allowed to legally bring in relatives.
Yes, they were educated in America, but their parents are the ones who probably had the most influence.

This post was edited by Ghot on Sep 5 2017 03:06am

well, polling unregistered persons is inherently difficult.

about bringing in relatives: if trump gets his way with changing the priorities of the legal immigration system from "family reunion" to "qualified and sought after by our companies", then this wont be an issue. if the relatives of dreamers are qualified enough and can find a decent paying job for which no american can be found, then they are welcome. if they cant, which I assume will apply to most of them, the door remains shut.

I seriously doubt there's a job for which an American "can't be found". There are 310 million legal Americans in this country.
I'm pretty sure, every job out there can be filled, even the undesired ones, by an American.

For me, it's not about race, it's about people born in this country, if qualified, should have first choice in the job market.
They should also have equal or better privileges in things like loans, education, etc.
Sometimes I just get tired of seeing American born citizens at the back of some line that's handing out things, just because they don't fit some arbitrary profile.

If the people in the US want to help other countries, fine...do it on THEIR soil...just don't do it in the US.
I dunno, do something like make the Peace Corps a paid job instead of strictly volunteer work, and sympathetic folks in the US, who can't afford to do volunteer work, may just decide to go help struggling countries, on that country's soil instead of ours.

We can't just keep absorbing people forever, We won't be able to support them and still give Americans the breaks that some of them need.


/e We definitely have problems right here at home. It's becoming impossible to devote the time and resources to solving these problems, if we are always using them to solve other countries problems.

This post was edited by Ghot on Sep 5 2017 03:42am