Whether we eventually do a bad thing has nothing to do with if what we are doing now is good. Ukraine is an ally being invaded by a fascist government. There's very few ways you could make that not a good thing to help against.

There is no compromise being sought because Russia has made it clear they will not compromise. Putin's demands for coming to the table have been effectively just "give me everything I want up front". He wants the contested areas, Ukraine to remain out of NATO, Ukraine to remain nuke-less. That's basically everything. Starting with that and giving no concessions isn't a negotiation.

We have a ton of political AND economic ties to Ukraine. Ukraine stopping wheat shipments caused a huge amount of turmoil in the global food market. Russia's invasion threw the energy market into turmoil. Conflict in Eastern Europe is right on Poland's border. The world is interconnected whether you like it or not, and as a global trade superpower that necessarily means we have economic ties to literally everybody.

What makes you think this is good? A whole region is being destabilized, thousands killed, millions displaced.



Since when? What treaties have been signed? What makes them more of an ally then let's say Turkey who is a NATO member? US just shot down a Turkish drone.



What? Where do you get this Goebbels propaganda. The fact that you don't agree doesn't make your perceived opponent a fascist. This is an immature worldview.


I think Russia has been very flexible. Their demand list is pubilcly online and has been available for a while now. I think negotiations are still ongoing despite the war and propagandists on both sides working overtime. So far I understand Russian demands are: 1) Crimea, Donbass, 2) No NATO, 3) Russian language as second language, 4) demilitarization or limited military, 5) denazification (whatever that means - my assumption is they want laws condemning e.g. 14th Galicia, Azov and the likes).



Have you ever had to negotiate literally anything in your life? Thats how all negotiations go. You come in and then see who budges first and find an agreement based on who has more bargaining power. Ukraine is losing theirs as we speak unless something changes the course of this conflict. Nukeless Ukraine was never ever brought up. Nobody wants nukes in Ukraine - even NATO.




No you don't. US and Ukraine barely trade. Ukraine doesnt even ship their coal or wheat to US. See attached picture from 2018:



Political ties? You mean Hunter Biden and Victoria Nuland's careers? Okay.



So did sanctioning of Russian agricultural exports.



It did initially due to self sanctioning and moral high grounds of some nations, but Russian oil and gas is still not sanctioned and is still purchased by the NATO members.



I know a few things about global trade.

You posted a lot but this one is worth drilling into.

We aren't doing that by supporting Ukraine. That was Russia. Russia did that by invading.

Why start at 2022?

We can go back to 2014 if you want, but that's still just Russia invading Ukraine.

You always sound really ignorant when you talk about the situation in Ukraine. Just FYI.

This story starts much, much earlier. The NATO turning point was probably 2008. But the foundation of what has transpired in 2022 was probably laid back on the 20th of April 1954.

I personally also like to refer to the collapse of Russian Empire and particularly 1918 Brest-Litovsk treaty that signified a humiliating ceasefire and withdrawal from Sykes-Picot agreement for the Russians, but that's nerd talk and historical "what if" talks that only go well over a beer.

This is a really nice way to avoid the actual question at hand.

I'm sorry but so far our interaction has been mostly you avoiding making coherent arguments and instead just vaguely gesturing at things.

Can you please make an argument so we can have a discussion about its merit?

Russia invaded Ukraine in both 2014 and 2022. This is what caused the destabilization we were discussing before. Do you disagree with that, and if so why?



Literally nobody cares about your assessment of their conversations and the overwhelming consensus is you've never made a single post that added anything of quality to this forum.

Just FYI.

This post was edited by NetflixAdaptationWidow on Oct 6 2023 12:44pm

Big mad. Take a break man, have a snack or something and come back after, you might do better

I understand you have to think that to avoid your ego being impacted, but that's genuinely how you're viewed.

You do not have the capacity to impact my emotions. What I said was a completely factual and objective assessment.