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Sep 19 2023 09:03am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Sep 18 2023 11:43pm)
It is a serious accusation to make for the leader of a country, I doubt they didn't discuss this with the US before Trudeau came out with it, which is why I think it could be significant in terms of the US-India relationship.

How do they choke the Chinese? They are a part of BRICS and apart from the stick battles on the border things are quite chill between them aren't they? India has also been increasingly independent, I'm not sure they could be pushed into a serious conflict against their interests very easily.

I know that has historically been why the west maintained relations with India but things are changing quite quickly, in my eyes India seems much more aligned with Russia and China than the West

Or rather, they seem to want to be neutral, which to the West is the same thing as being aligned with Russia and China


Therein lies the problem for BRICS. Many diverging interests under the guise of cooperation. I mean perhaps it can become something significant, but the odds are stacked against that outcome.
The worlds largest democracy and the worlds largest authoritarian cult of personality; Its an instant conflict of interests.

The main reason the US led, dollar based global hegemony has been so successful is one country is clearly a leader militarily and economically.
In order for any kind of de-dollarization to be possible the diverging interests of other BRIC countries would need to become secondary to China's leadership economically. I don't see India agreeing to that kind of subservience at the detriment to its national interest. Why would it?

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Sep 19 2023 09:04am
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Sep 19 2023 09:10am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Sep 19 2023 11:03am)
Therein lies the problem for BRICS. Many diverging interests under the guise of cooperation. I mean perhaps it can become something significant, but the odds are stacked against that outcome.
The worlds largest democracy and the worlds largest authoritarian cult of personality; Its an instant conflict of interests.

The main reason the US led, dollar based global hegemony has been so successful is one country is clearly a leader militarily and economically.
In order for any kind of de-dollarization to be possible the diverging interests of other BRIC countries would need to become secondary to China's leadership economically. I don't see India agreeing to that kind of subservience at the detriment to its national interest. Why would it?


Your premise is incorrect so you end with an inaccurate conclusion. To think a specific members currency needs to somehow become supreme for it to work is not really fact. It worked for the last number of years with the dollar, but BRICS model could just either be settling in local currency or creation of a brand new currency which is backed by gold reserves with no single member able to somehow game the system by printing or whatever.
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Sep 19 2023 09:20am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 19 2023 04:10pm)
Your premise is incorrect so you end with an inaccurate conclusion. To think a specific members currency needs to somehow become supreme for it to work is not really fact. It worked for the last number of years with the dollar, but BRICS model could just either be settling in local currency or creation of a brand new currency which is backed by gold reserves with no single member able to somehow game the system by printing or whatever.


Be sure to let me know how that works out.

What will BRICS do if Argentina adopts the greenback?
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Sep 19 2023 09:27am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Sep 19 2023 11:20am)
Be sure to let me know how that works out.

What will BRICS do if Argentina adopts the greenback?


Maybe it works maybe it doesn't? What we see though is foreign reserves denominated in dollars plummeting with more and more countries looking to settle in something other than dollar. This is really obvious. This doesn't somehow mean the dollar is done but the trend is very clear.

I highly doubt Argentina would adopt the dollar because it would essentially cede a ton of leverage from the country to an external country, which is highly unlikely but even if that happens why wouldn't they just be able to transact USD-Yuan for example? You're acting as if they use the dollar that somehow completely breaks down the BRICS model, it doesn't.
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Sep 19 2023 09:34am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 19 2023 04:27pm)
Maybe it works maybe it doesn't? What we see though is foreign reserves denominated in dollars plummeting with more and more countries looking to settle in something other than dollar. This is really obvious. This doesn't somehow mean the dollar is done but the trend is very clear.

I highly doubt Argentina would adopt the dollar because it would essentially cede a ton of leverage from the country to an external country, which is highly unlikely but even if that happens why wouldn't they just be able to transact USD-Yuan for example? You're acting as if they use the dollar that somehow completely breaks down the BRICS model, it doesn't.


A substantial BRICS member using the dollar doesn't break down the BRICS model of de dollarisation? Uh.

I'm referring specifically to the notion thr BRICS can somehow de dollarise global trade. In theory it can work but with such interconnected supply chains and global economy I don't see how avoiding trading with the world's largest economy or second largest if China does exceed the US economy as potentially expected, makes any sense for any country.

I'm not sure if your familiar with what is going on in Aregntina but inflation is well over 100% and people are essentially changing pesos into dollars immediately to avoid the devaluing effect of hyperinflation.
There is a left field populist candidate running for president that is polling in front, one of his policies is abolishing Argentinas central bank and currency and adopting the USD.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Sep 19 2023 09:35am
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Sep 19 2023 09:43am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Sep 19 2023 11:34am)
A substantial BRICS member using the dollar doesn't break down the BRICS model of de dollarisation? Uh.

I'm referring specifically to the notion thr BRICS can somehow de dollarise global trade. In theory it can work but with such interconnected supply chains and global economy I don't see how avoiding trading with the world's largest economy or second largest if China does exceed the US economy as potentially expected, makes any sense for any economy.

I'm not sure if your familiar with what is going on in Aregntina but inflation is well over 100% and people are essentially changing pesos into dollars immediately to avoid the devaluing effect of hyperinflation.


The mission of BRICS isn't dedollarisation, it's economic cooperation. Dedollarisation is a side effect of these countries settling in their own currencies instead of settling in dollars and holding dollars, which for a very long time was the de-facto international currency.

You're really confused on what they are trying to do actually, no one is trying to exclude the US as a trading partner or somehow ban dollar usage lol. I'm aware of Argentina's inflation issues but dropping their currency and adopting the dollar has huge negative consequences (as I said they lose leverage over monetary policy, things like controlling interest rates, etc). In reality only a handful of very small countries have adopted the dollar as an official currency, basically a few island countries. A country the size of Argentina isn't going to do that simply based on how big they are.
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Sep 19 2023 09:54am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Sep 19 2023 12:03pm)
Therein lies the problem for BRICS. Many diverging interests under the guise of cooperation. I mean perhaps it can become something significant, but the odds are stacked against that outcome.
The worlds largest democracy and the worlds largest authoritarian cult of personality; Its an instant conflict of interests.

The main reason the US led, dollar based global hegemony has been so successful is one country is clearly a leader militarily and economically.
In order for any kind of de-dollarization to be possible the diverging interests of other BRIC countries would need to become secondary to China's leadership economically. I don't see India agreeing to that kind of subservience at the detriment to its national interest. Why would it?


I mean you can basically describe most human endeavors as "many diverging interests under the guise of cooperation" so that is just kind of a word salad.

It is already something significant or no one would be talking about it, if BRICS was a dud and no one gave a shit about it you wouldn't see 10 million articles written about why it is a doomed prospect, you wouldn't see emerging and established economies flocking to it either.

What exactly is the conflict of interests? Different styles of government? Some random border regions that a few dudes fought for with sticks?

Wtf are you talking about lol, the dollar is king because it is the established means of doing business, US foreign policy has been putting that under pressure by making it an unsafe means of doing business for countries who are not fully aligned with US interests (The majority of the world)

This is why doing things like stealing Russian money held in foreign countries is such a big deal despite how right it feels to reddit brained people who can't think critically and who don't understand the basis of western power.

The point of BRICs is not subservience to China, the point is not being subservient to the current ruling western system because it is blatantly stacked against developing economies and is increasingly used as a weapon by the US government.

This post was edited by DizzyBusiness on Sep 19 2023 09:56am
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Sep 19 2023 10:07am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 19 2023 04:43pm)
The mission of BRICS isn't dedollarisation, it's economic cooperation. Dedollarisation is a side effect of these countries settling in their own currencies instead of settling in dollars and holding dollars, which for a very long time was the de-facto international currency.

You're really confused on what they are trying to do actually, no one is trying to exclude the US as a trading partner or somehow ban dollar usage lol. I'm aware of Argentina's inflation issues but dropping their currency and adopting the dollar has huge negative consequences (as I said they lose leverage over monetary policy, things like controlling interest rates, etc). In reality only a handful of very small countries have adopted the dollar as an official currency, basically a few island countries. A country the size of Argentina isn't going to do that simply based on how big they are.


Its reasonable to assume that de-dollarization is 100% a policy of BRICS members. Perhaps in varying degrees, which again highlights the integral problem with cooperation vs diverging interests. For example Russia might be more aggressively pursuing de-dollarization compared to Argentina. Which is certainly the case, but one could replace Argentina with India or even China.

This is a trash article but it paraphrases what Putin said in an address to BRICS members, https://uk.style.yahoo.com/gaining-momentum-vladimir-putin-says-161500706.html

I was going to point out the contradictory nature of what you had said, but I re-read your post and you already did it for me :D
Yes it is a side effect of countries settling in alternative currencies, but its not only a side effect for Russia its an objective. Perhaps less so China, perhaps even less so India. But in my opinion and not only mine it is 100% an intentional objective.
Also no I obviously don't consider de-dollarization an instantaneous idea where suddenly BRICS countries refuse to trade in the dollar or with the US; You only have to compare the trade settled in alternative currencies like the Yuan for example over the past decade, to see that it is an ongoing process.

One could argue for several reasons why this is obvious. Increased importance and influence of the country settling in its own currency. Furthering the objective of a multipolar order. More potential to avoid sanctions.

Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Sep 19 2023 04:54pm)
I mean you can basically describe most human endeavors as "many diverging interests under the guise of cooperation" so that is just kind of a word salad.

It is already something significant or no one would be talking about it, if BRICS was a dud and no one gave a shit about it you wouldn't see 10 million articles written about why it is a doomed prospect, you wouldn't see emerging and established economies flocking to it either.

What exactly is the conflict of interests? Different styles of government? Some random border regions that a few dudes fought for with sticks?

Wtf are you talking about lol, the dollar is king because it is the established means of doing business, US foreign policy has been putting that under pressure by making it an unsafe means of doing business for countries who are not fully aligned with US interests (The majority of the world)

This is why doing things like stealing Russian money held in foreign countries is such a big deal despite how right it feels to reddit brained people who can't think critically and who don't understand the basis of western power.

The point of BRICs is not subservience to China, the point is not being subservient to the current ruling western system because it is blatantly stacked against developing economies and is increasingly used as a weapon by the US government.


I'm sure there is some value in your post but I haven't even read it. I have no desire to engage in debate with you after your pathetic troll posting and randomly quoting me.
AFAIK you have never or will never add any value to any discussion I am interested in.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Sep 19 2023 10:10am
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Sep 19 2023 10:13am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Sep 19 2023 01:07pm)
Its reasonable to assume that de-dollarization is 100% a policy of BRICS members. Perhaps in varying degrees, which again highlights the integral problem with cooperation vs diverging interests. For example Russia might be more aggressively pursuing de-dollarization compared to Argentina. Which is certainly the case, but one could replace Argentina with India or even China.

This is a trash article but it paraphrases what Putin said in an address to BRICS members, https://uk.style.yahoo.com/gaining-momentum-vladimir-putin-says-161500706.html

I was going to point out the contradictory nature of what you had said, but I re-read your post and you already did it for me :D
Yes it is a side effect of countries settling in alternative currencies, but its not only a side effect for Russia its an objective. Perhaps less so China, perhaps even less so India. But in my opinion and not only mine it is 100% an intentional objective.
Also no I obviously don't consider de-dollarization an instantaneous idea where suddenly BRICS countries refuse to trade in the dollar or with the US; You only have to compare the trade settled in alternative currencies like the Yuan for example over the past decade, to see that it is an ongoing process.

One could argue for several reasons why this is obvious. Increased importance and influence of the country settling in its own currency. Furthering the objective of a multipolar order. More potential to avoid sanctions.



I'm sure there is some value in your post but I haven't even read it. I have no desire to engage in debate with you after your pathetic troll posting and randomly quoting me.
AFAIK you have never or will never add any value to any discussion I am interested in.


Lol what is wrong with you, what made you like this?
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Sep 19 2023 10:21am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Sep 19 2023 10:55am)
Nothing that involves Canada is a big deal.


Scotland is known for alcoholism, heroin use, and sheep snagging, never forget your roots
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