This is what money is though, and what it is for. Person A lends their skills towards constructions, person B pays them money in return, such that person A then uses that money to acquire the services of someone in the medical field. People will not spontaneously give away their labour for free - it's a nice idea that people will help others expecting nothing in return but reality and human nature doesnt work that way. Not only that, people exploit it for personal gain: only receive and never give. Basically this from South Park:



This accurately describes people who think money is a bad thing/money isn't necessary

This post was edited by El1te on Aug 28 2023 03:36pm

I think humanity is pretty adapted for labor, and I don't think UBI would be the productivity killer that some anticipate. I think it would reveal that is 'meaningful' human productivity though.

I don't think it would kill productivity, it would just lead to hyperinflation. Then the UBI amount just has to keep increasing and increasing until infinity. It's not like this hasn't been tried before: printing money doesn't work. By definition, giving someone money without a good or service rendered is the same thing as printing money

This post was edited by El1te on Aug 28 2023 03:38pm

Hard to say. I know personally I slammed a wall in life. Once I hit above 50% tax at a marginal rate, I absolutely reject work. Zero desire to lose over 50% of the next dollar.

I don't know where the average threshold is where people's will to be productive stops.

This post was edited by SBD on Aug 28 2023 03:39pm

I think it depends, definitely, on the kind of work that people do. I'm extremely privileged in that I was able secure a line of work that I actually find engaging, challenging in a eustressful way, and that it is something that I would continue to do if I won the lottery (although, with less days/hours).

I honestly don't think that many people find meaningful work. Certainly you can take pride in your work but still not find it meaningful. It's probably the case that most people who would need UBI are not going to find what they would deem meaningful work, I suspect anyway. Would they want to go to a fairly mundane, or labour job if their basic needs are met. I don't know. Needs testing.

This post was edited by SBD on Aug 28 2023 03:53pm

a business is in the business of staying in business.

1. stay in business.
2. make money
3. provide a service or product

Employees may be required to provide the service or sell the product
selling of the service or product makes money
money makes sure the business stays in business

I'm not 'boot licking', That's a term used by fringe creeps who can't or refuse to wrap their head around reality.

---------
Social Security is in the business of staying in business
Welfare is in the business of staying in business.

Universal basic income would become another government bureaucracy that would be in the business of staying in business.

wake up

This post was edited by Mondain on Aug 28 2023 04:32pm

You're reinventing the dole. To Rome it was a necessity, as a large chunk of the Roman population couldn't find sufficient work as widespread slave ownership eroded the value of labor. As a result, the citizen class that fueled Rome's initial rise was slowly but surely hallowed out.

Only a complete fool would fail to recognize UBI will become absolutely necessary for the continuation of society as more and more jobs are lost to automation.

Ubi doesn't solve the problem it rearranges it. It's a steal from Peter to pay Paul scheme. Another way it can be seen as poor people's bailout.

Now in terms of work incentive and why we need it. Simple answer is because we have maintenance needs. We require food and water and shelter to survive. In order to get those we must get off our ass and get them. Instead of going to a jungle with a spear to hunt meat or basket to pick berries we go out and perform jobs which are rewarded with money. Which we can use to buy things.

Remove the need to sleep, eat, drink, shelter and protection then no one needs to work. But that ain't happening. So the question becomes how can we best produce/fulfil those needs. It's an efficiency problem and leveraging our time and labour in such a way where it becomes easier not harder. When we pool our resources and manpower into clusters cities, states and nations we become very efficient but there is internal drag that comes with some people rowing in different direction. There are people who instead of producing and making the world better are engaging theft and gaming the system in order to take from others and put into their own pocket. These are lawyers, politicians, beurocrats, federal reserve, banking cartels and military which is a drag on society.