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May 5 2022 08:32am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 5 May 2022 11:02)
Going "I told you so, look how dangerous to our cause these people are when you let them get into power" is a ridiculous take when you are one of the main factors why they got into power.

Think of a defender in hockey who slips and then the other team scores a goal. Yes, he did not score that goal himself, but he knew what the other team was up to, was in position to stop them, but failed to do so. Hillary of course doesn't bear the moral responsibility for this development, but in a real politics sense, she has to take some of the blame.


ummm... you might want to look at the date of that tweet, lol. it's not an "i told you so", but a "this will happen IF he gets on the court". if you insist on having a hockey analogy, how about this one: her team outscored the other one, but thanks to a ridiculous, undemocratic rule, it was decided that she still lost.

if you absolutely want to blame women for this, you should point the finger at those who voted republican - despite all the signs and warnings. those are the ones who actually bear part of the blame - not the ones who warned this will happen, and tried their best to prevent it, lol. do you genuinely not realise how dumb it is trying to fabricate some narrative in which hillary / RBG are responsible for republicans pushing religious fundamentalist policies? i mean, clinton is objectively fair game on so many issues: she's a corrupt, warmongering cunt, a terrible person, a backstabbing snake, and a lot of other truly evil things, but trying to (even partially) blame her on THIS is just your usual partisan hackery, lol.
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May 5 2022 08:34am
Quote (fender @ May 5 2022 07:48am)
so that somehow makes it her fault, rather than the fault of the people actively undermining women's rights? weird "logic". reminds me of the pootin apologists claiming it's NATO's fault that they are murdering ukrainians now, or people claiming it's women's dressing habits' fault they are getting raped...


isn't that what muslims do?

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May 5 2022 08:34am
Quote (Ghot @ May 5 2022 08:56am)
Two things...

1. Whether or not the fetus can survive outside the womb has nothing at all to do with the issue. We define murder as killing a sentient being. When the fetus first says "I am", should be the determining factor.

2. Having the ability to abort up till 24 weeks (6 months), is ridiculous. Any issues of physical or psychological damage to the mother can be determined LONG before then.

2b. Waiting 6 months is just being irresponsible. That's a time frame for deciding things like whether you like the job or the relationship you have, NOT whether you like being pregnant or not.

2c. If aborting up to 6 months is legal, then why not up to two years, or thirteen years. In all three cases, the child can exist outside the womb.



This whole abortion issues is BS. The time to abort is BEFORE you have sex.


6 month abortions comprise 1.3% of all abortions. most of those cases are removing a dead child, not a live child. and almost all of the other cases are causes where either the child wont survive until birth, or the mother wont survive until birth. many of these cases also avoid abortion, and a c-section is performed instead if the risk to mother is the cause.

the case of woman who decides at 6 months she doesnt want to be a mom so gets an abortion is so exceedingly rare that it's not really worth speaking about. i bet you could literally count on 1 hand the number of times that happens in a year. but if it was codified into law that it has to have a medical necessity i dont think even pro choice people would be mad. its an odd niche tangent to the discussion generally.
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May 5 2022 08:48am
Quote (Ghot @ May 5 2022 07:56am)
Two things...

1. Whether or not the fetus can survive outside the womb has nothing at all to do with the issue. We define murder as killing a sentient being. When the fetus first says "I am", should be the determining factor.

2. Having the ability to abort up till 24 weeks (6 months), is ridiculous. Any issues of physical or psychological damage to the mother can be determined LONG before then.

2b. Waiting 6 months is just being irresponsible. That's a time frame for deciding things like whether you like the job or the relationship you have, NOT whether you like being pregnant or not.

2c. If aborting up to 6 months is legal, then why not up to two years, or thirteen years. In all three cases, the child can exist outside the womb.



This whole abortion issues is BS. The time to abort is BEFORE you have sex.


Similar to previous years, in 2019, women in their twenties accounted for the majority of abortions (56.9%). The majority of abortions in 2019 took place early in gestation: 92.7% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation; a smaller number of abortions (6.2%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and even fewer (<1.0%) were performed at ≥21 weeks’ gestation. Early medical abortion is defined as the administration of medications(s) to induce an abortion at ≤9 completed weeks’ gestation, consistent with the current Food and Drug Administration labeling for mifepristone (implemented in 2016). In 2019, 42.3% of all abortions were early medical abortions. Use of early medical abortion increased 10% from 2018 to 2019 and 123% from 2010 to 2019.

The majority of people will reasonably conclude that setting a cut-off prior to 6 months is reasonable, given that sub 1% happen after 21 weeks. It would essentially be a complete non factor.


Edit: Nvm has already been said.


Also... while yes being responsible before having sex would be the ideal situation, we live in reality where this is clearly not happening. I don't think we should craft legislation based on fantasy land. If you tackle other issues like education , poverty and a slew of other items first perhaps you can get to a spot where you can be more ridged but that certainly isn't the case now.

This post was edited by SBD on May 5 2022 08:51am
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May 5 2022 09:19am
Quote (thesnipa @ May 5 2022 10:34am)
6 month abortions comprise 1.3% of all abortions. most of those cases are removing a dead child, not a live child. and almost all of the other cases are causes where either the child wont survive until birth, or the mother wont survive until birth. many of these cases also avoid abortion, and a c-section is performed instead if the risk to mother is the cause.

the case of woman who decides at 6 months she doesnt want to be a mom so gets an abortion is so exceedingly rare that it's not really worth speaking about. i bet you could literally count on 1 hand the number of times that happens in a year. but if it was codified into law that it has to have a medical necessity i dont think even pro choice people would be mad. its an odd niche tangent to the discussion generally.


Quote (SBD @ May 5 2022 10:48am)
Similar to previous years, in 2019, women in their twenties accounted for the majority of abortions (56.9%). The majority of abortions in 2019 took place early in gestation: 92.7% of abortions were performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation; a smaller number of abortions (6.2%) were performed at 14–20 weeks’ gestation, and even fewer (<1.0%) were performed at ≥21 weeks’ gestation. Early medical abortion is defined as the administration of medications(s) to induce an abortion at ≤9 completed weeks’ gestation, consistent with the current Food and Drug Administration labeling for mifepristone (implemented in 2016). In 2019, 42.3% of all abortions were early medical abortions. Use of early medical abortion increased 10% from 2018 to 2019 and 123% from 2010 to 2019.

The majority of people will reasonably conclude that setting a cut-off prior to 6 months is reasonable, given that sub 1% happen after 21 weeks. It would essentially be a complete non factor.


Edit: Nvm has already been said.


Also... while yes being responsible before having sex would be the ideal situation, we live in reality where this is clearly not happening. I don't think we should craft legislation based on fantasy land. If you tackle other issues like education , poverty and a slew of other items first perhaps you can get to a spot where you can be more ridged but that certainly isn't the case now.








Whatever the statistics... they are going to come up with a ruling (law) etc.
I feel we've gotten off track on the abortion issue. It's become a consideration of things which aren't really the issue.

The issue as I see it, is whether or not it's murder. As I said... throughout history, we've mostly considered murder as the killing of sentient (thinking) beings.
THAT is where we should be starting from, on the abortion issue.

Roe v Wade may have started out with good intentions, but it's definitely gone haywire, over the years.
Now... pregnancy has pretty much become an... Oh cool... we can easily abort, so why concern ourselves with considerations on any kind, before we jump in the sack.



Q: What are we gonna do tonight?

A: Movies, go out to dinner, go for a walk, have sex. <----- One of these things is not like the others. It has far greater implications and consequences.

This post was edited by Ghot on May 5 2022 09:21am
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May 5 2022 09:24am
Quote (Ghot @ May 5 2022 10:19am)
Whatever the statistics... they are going to come up with a ruling (law) etc.
I feel we've gotten off track on the abortion issue. It's become a consideration of things which aren't really the issue.

The issue as I see it, is whether or not it's murder. As I said... throughout history, we've mostly considered murder as the killing of sentient (thinking) beings.
THAT is where we should be starting from, on the abortion issue.

Roe v Wade may have started out with good intentions, but it's definitely gone haywire, over the years.
Now... pregnancy has pretty much become an... Oh cool... we can easily abort, so why concern ourselves with considerations on any kind, before we jump in the sack.



Q: What are we gonna do tonight?

A: Movies, go out to dinner, go for a walk, have sex. <----- One of these things is not like the others. It has far greater implications and consequences.


speaking of history, humans literally put a plant into extinction that was used to brew a tea to cause abortions. we overused it so severely it went out of existence.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/silphium

This post was edited by thesnipa on May 5 2022 09:25am
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May 5 2022 09:26am
Quote (thesnipa @ May 5 2022 08:24am)
speaking of history, humans literally put a plant into extinction that was used to brew a tea to cause abortions. we overused it so severely it went out of existence.



The only plant that causes abortions is the MRNA chip kind. You're really failing their litmus test arent you. Believing everything youre told like a good goy lol.
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May 5 2022 09:41am
Quote (thesnipa @ May 5 2022 11:24am)
speaking of history, humans literally put a plant into extinction that was used to brew a tea to cause abortions. we overused it so severely it went out of existence.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/silphium




Something like that would be a better solution, IMO.
A pill you could take within say 48 hours AFTER sex, that would prevent anything from... growing in there.

But it would need to work only within the first 48 hours, or we will have the same problem we have with Roe v Wade... only more so.
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May 5 2022 10:21am
Quote (lodd222 @ May 5 2022 10:26am)
The only plant that causes abortions is the MRNA chip kind. You're really failing their litmus test arent you. Believing everything youre told like a good goy lol.


seek help.

Quote (Ghot @ May 5 2022 10:41am)
Something like that would be a better solution, IMO.
A pill you could take within say 48 hours AFTER sex, that would prevent anything from... growing in there.

But it would need to work only within the first 48 hours, or we will have the same problem we have with Roe v Wade... only more so.


im no biologist but i doubt that is even possible. not all zygotes grow at the same rate im sure so u couldnt like select for size. plus lets consider like a woman on BC who has her partner use a condom, but both fail, she doesnt even know for like 2 weeks most likely.

the best solution is for vasectomys reversal rates to reach like 99.999% then men can get the snip at age 14, and reverse it once they want families.
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May 5 2022 10:24am
In European countries it is estimated that roughly nine out of ten women decide to have an abortion if they are told they are carrying a child with Down syndrome.
=> I am curious about the share of abortions done because of diseases.
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