I feel like he's equating something like voter fraud to something like airplane security. Obviously, aeroports are more strigent when it comes to ID because there have been documented fatal terrorist acts and human/drug trafficking in the past. Voter integrity is not even remotely near this danger zone so why make an issue out of nothing and circumscribe one's constitutionally guaranteed right.

This post was edited by kenw on Apr 23 2021 09:27pm

You didn't bother to read what I wrote, did you? Let's boil it down to numbers:

Let's assume for a moment that every single poverty-stricken voter were voting in the same election. Let's also assume that every single poverty-stricken voter were somehow magically unable to get an ID. Let's also assume that every single poverty-stricken black/brown voter was voting for Candidate A, and every single poverty-stricken white voter was voting for candidate B. This would mean that Candidate A would lose approximately 22 million votes. Candidate B would lose approximately 26.6 million votes. Thus, candidate A would literally GAIN a 4.6 million vote lead by disenfranchising poor voters. Given that there's this assumption that poor black/brown people naturally vote for the Democratic candidate, and the poor whites magically somehow vote for the Republican candidate, any attempt to disenfranchise the poverty-stricken would actually harm, by your own reasoning, the GOP, and HELP the Dems.

And there is voter fraud in every election. There are non-citizens who attempt to vote, people who attempt to vote multiple times, people who attempt to buy votes, all kinds of things. Whether or not it's "widespread" enough to impact a national election is irrelevant. Fraud has directly led to local elections being won/lost many times. And from a realistic level, that's what the issue at hand is here. Georgia adopted many of the covid-based voting procedures and codified them, opening up new ways to vote, expanding drop boxes, etc. They also, however, strengthened signature and ID requirements. So they expanded voting, while maintaining the integrity of that expanded voting. Now, being from Oregon, I can honestly say that Georgia is still way behind the times on this matter. Oregon codified all this many decades ago, has had absentee voting available to all, and has had the ID and signature requirements as well. We've never had any problems, and are a blue state. Georgia's laws have honestly come closer in line with Oregon's laws, where before, voting was more difficult in Georgia.

And a single non-citizen voting in an election is an actual issue. Many local and state-level races come down to a handful of votes. I'm thinking that you're basing your opinion around POTUS races, which I frankly don't particularly care about, where the popular vote is concerned. Local politicians have a much higher impact on your daily life than the POTUS. Fraud at the local level is and has always been a problem.



Non-citizens and felons do not have a Constitutionally guaranteed right to vote any more than they have a Constitutionally guaranteed right to own and carry firearms. In both cases, proof of citizenship (in good standing) is required.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Apr 23 2021 09:39pm

While I won't comment on that person specifically. I will say that there are certainly people who just can't see the writing on the wall, even after we've literally had communications from Republicans leaked that explicitly said they are doing these things to harm voters on a racial basis.

They also tend to be the same people who crow about free speech but then whine when they have to deal with free speech. Which proves they don't actually care at all about the rights they pretend to champion.

Nobody in particular, of course. It's just a general trend I've seen with white people who have, shall we say, family issues, and who aren't particularly well adjusted to taking criticism.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Apr 23 2021 09:36pm

I read it but you are making no sense. Poor people tend to vote for Democrats regardless of their color. I don't know the current stats but back in the Obama days, he got roughly 50% of the poor (50k median household and below ?) white vote, which grows the more you go down. Every other demographic was heavily in favor of Obama. It went to 75% for all poor people below 20k. So mathematically speaking, Democrats would be still losing if you were to account for these aforementioned stats.

You might be right on the local election part, though. I'd have to look into it.

This post was edited by kenw on Apr 23 2021 09:58pm

Ah, so now your claim is that it's NOT a racially based requirement at all? Now we're getting somewhere.

So the next question is, if GOP legislators in Georgia allegedly stand to gain from disenfranchising poor voters, why have State Issued ID cards been free to poor people in Georgia for decades? Literally, State IDs. Can be used to rent apartments, purchase firearms, vote, etc. Meet's every requirement something like a Passport or Drivers License would with the exception that it does not convey a right to drive. If the way to disenfranchise voters is to deny them proof of citizenship, why would GOP Legislators make obtaining proof of citizenship not only easy, but free?

At this point, I don't believe you have the faintest clue what you're arguing. "You must be a citizen to vote. You may only vote once. You may only vote in the district you live. Your ID guarantees all these boxes are checked, and we'll provide you the ID free of charge." "YOU'RE TRYING TO DISENFRANCHISE VOTERS!"" "Wut?"

They only had a problem with voter integrity when they lost, so you should ask them - maybe after years.of winning, they got lulled into a false sense of security and now they are in panic mode and regretting past decisions. Who knows.

First: What did they lose? Second: What are you talking about? ID and signature requirements have existed in Georgia voting before now. The 2020 election was unusual as voting methods were heavily expanded without the coinciding ID/Signature requirements being carried to the expanded methods of voting.

The legislation codifies into law much of the expanded methods of voting, while enforcing citizenship requirements that already existed. As far as "losing" that makes no sense. What did the GOP in Georgia lose, exactly? I'm guessing you're referring to national level Senate seats? That's nothing to do with local elections. Federal Senators don't impact State laws mate.

Edit: To expand slightly, the Governor of Georgia is a Republican. The Georgia State Senate and House are both majority Republican. The majority of towns in Georgia have Republican Mayors. Atlanta of course is the primary source of "blue" voting in the state, and has a Democrat Mayor. As a point in fact, that's nothing new. Atlanta's last Republican Mayor was single term 1877-1879. As a point in fact, from the time of slavery to today, Atlanta's only had 4 years total of non-Democrat mayors, both within a decade and a half of the end of the Civil war. So, from my viewpoint on this, 2020 had no real impact on State-level politics within Georgia. Thus, the question of "What did the GOP of Georgia lose?"

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Apr 23 2021 10:35pm

I should clarify that my inspiration for this was Dave Rubin, a notorious grifter and "free speech warrior" who bans people when they post things on his twitter and stuff that he doesn't like.

I'm not well informed enough on the subject as to whether or not there's significant voter fraud problem on the local level. If there is, then I'd be more supportive of this bill. If otherwise, then I don't see the reason of lessening the chances of the destitute to vote aside from hidden motives. Generally, people are the product of their own environment, so you shouldn't expect most poor people to be socially responsible just because you are.

I'm still confused regarding the claim of "lessening chances". IDs are free if you simply state you can't afford it and need it for voting. Even more interesting, the majority of Democratic voters in Georgia are clustered in the Atlanta area. AKA not rural. DMVs are plentiful, and you can also go to the county registrar. We aren't talking about people having to travel 80 miles by bus to get a free ID. And they are standard State IDs, valid for 8 years. If anything, the proof of citizenship requirement would have a greater impact on the rural voter that trends GOP. But once again, the purpose is not to disenfranchise anyone. The purpose is to insure only citizens vote, and all votes are legal.