So trumps campaign slogan in general is.
Let me fix the America as it stands under my leadership..

Not the best message

You're misunderstanding my point. I didnt want to imply that we should just live with the surging cases, I wanted to imply that covid seems to cycle around in waves which can be mitigated, but not really stopped, by lowkey social distancing and mask wearing. (Only proper shutdowns seem effective at truly stopping the spread, but they come at an outsized social and economic cost and are therefore the last resort.)

i'd say that's a strawman, no one thinks it can truly be stopped. and if they do its trump voters who think a vaccine is a miracle drug that will destroy covid. the rhetoric from the start was "flatten the curve", not "eliminate all cases".

but my point stands given that im in an area where 50% of people or so arent even trying to mitigate it. my company had people shopping at walmart with covid tests pending with no masks on in the store, many tested positive. people around me are idiots.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Oct 6 2020 10:37am

Trump Vs Jake Tapper (2020 colorized)

Wisconsin gonna Wisconsin.

Every time I hear a Democrat talking about it, they are saying things like "Trump is responsible for this" in one fashion or another. People pretend or are really that dense to think Trump could have stopped this.

I think he certainly could have done a better job, could have given better signaling, etc. but even then his political opponents would of called it a failure and found reason to criticize.

The argument that masks don’t stop 100% of the spread so we shouldn’t fixate one this point cuz it’s not worth individual freedom... I will never understand. Nothing is ever this black and white. Mitigations help prevent disease, prevent spread, and as a secondary effect, allow businesses to stay open. Simple as this.

Those comparing outbreaks in Eu/Asia. Really too soon to make any claims about this. I would bet large sums of money these nations will have shorter peaks on both their horizontal and vertical axis. Additionally I would also bet that their respective economies will take a less of a hit due to hastily getting said infections under control. Getting your plateau to reasonable numbers ensures future inevitable outbreaks remain controllable. US is unique in being a first world country set for a horrible spike to come. Masks now will prevent some of the pain, but really I don’t think anything will stop the upcoming surge.

Just like excess deaths as a means to measure actual covid related deaths. It will be interesting to know what excess medical bankruptcy is by the end of this year. We are already >100x every other country in the world COMBINED on this metric. Will see what this ends up being by the end of this year I suppose.

trump is the most responsible for how much worse it is compared to how it could have been better. there are dozens, hundreds really, of people also responsible. and millions responsible by their unsafe action, people at giant parties, people who ignored protocols, etc.

what i find funny is 2010 Trump agreed with this, to him a presidents action or inaction was damnable. leaders lead, negotiators break grid lock, etc. Then get got in office, let governors handle the virus however with nothing but advice from his administration, and facilitating of supplies. all the while sending horrible messaging to people.

see above how 1 man funnels to millions, so his words arent just words, they're amplified at an insane rate.

i agree democrats/media would have said he did bad no matter what. but we have to be more nuanced, they do that on all matters. whereas you and i can call them on it sometimes, here instead you're saying he could have done better and im here saying he did really bad. if democratic response is constant than its the impressions of you and i that matter, not their constant bitching.

Contact tracing, testing, mask wearing, and social distancing can all be implemented without having an economy wide shutdown.

South Korea is the gold standard to this day, even when they have outbreaks they quickly get on top of it and as a result they haven't had to have a massive shutdown, despite having a much higher population density, greater proximity to the source, and being a comparably wealthy country to the United States and Europe.

If you do things right you don't have to shut down. Shutting down is the last-ditch-effort to stop the spread when you've fucked up.

His take/messaging probably has some effect on how people perceive this but I think it's severely amplified by people wanting to hold someone accountable, and that someone conveniently is the incumbent opposition president in an election year.

Do you think people in NYC, the epicenter of Covid in the US, didn't wear masks, didn't social distance because Trump downplayed it? You really think a city that's overwhelmingly democrat and hates Trump listened to his take?

Reality is most people were and and are careless and downplayed it, me included. Most of us have a very cavalier attitude about life with thoughts like 'it could never happen to me' and I wouldn't really say it's unique to Americans.




People bring up NK or Japan as models for how to respond. Sure, I agree. But it's important to note the cultural differences.

Both of those cultures are deeply humble compared to western culture. Both of those cultures have deep respect for authority figures. You can't say the same about the US, especially not in the last 4 years.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Oct 6 2020 11:23am