d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > A Few Challenges From The Qur'an And Me > Stick To The Topic
Prev1383940414274Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Aug 16 2012 12:58am
Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 15 2012 10:50pm)
The new testament is tainted because of men. The Bible contained what Christ said, it directly has to be tainted since its recordings are in the Bible. God has 1 religion, and is merciful enough to constantly give us more chances. Islam is not a completely separate religion, its the same religion that has been passed down from Adam.

Something material from nothing doesn't compute.

Thats why I didn't mention God specifically, I'm leaving it open for you to decide what is supernatural. If the supernatural thing wanted to be known, it would give its signs at the very least.

" it would have completely different physics" -- It would? You mean a different physics model? I don't think so... although this does'nt have much to do with religion anyways.


Question: Does God only speak in Arabic?
Member
Posts: 10,780
Joined: Jul 22 2011
Gold: 655.00
Aug 16 2012 01:18am
the fact is muslims discredit jesus and the new testimate not because the words have been tainted but because of how much he spoke out against false profits in it.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Aug 16 2012 01:18am
Member
Posts: 20,461
Joined: Jun 16 2008
Gold: 722.53
Warn: 10%
Aug 16 2012 03:59am
Quote (sylvannos @ Aug 15 2012 11:41pm)
I was giving you a decent response in a civil manner. If you want to be an ass about it, then you're not going to show anyone anything about Islam. In other words, you're fucking dumb if this is the best response you can give. Go eat a dick, kid.



But if the bible has been tainted by man, couldn't it also be possible Christ's message and teachings were also tainted? If that were true it would kind of make the entire new testament unneeded. We would have to use our own morality to decode what Jesus actually said and what is lies. If that were the case, we wouldn't need to figure it out at all. In other words, Islam should be a completely separate religion, albeit monotheistic.

As for your second point, it's why I think Islam is compatible, along with Judaism and Christianity, with what we know in modern science. However, there's a distinction I'm making which is that big bang/evolution/abiogenesis is not the same thing as "something from nothing," which is a strawmam.

For your third point, the supernatural does not mean god or even supernatural. Our universe and physics are based on our current reality. Let's consider, for a moment, that the matter of the universe did not start from one location as a hot mass, as we describe in the big bang. That would mean our universe isn't expanding, nor is it cooling down.

Why are those important? It changes the very nature of space, which is a vacuum. Galaxies wouldn't spin the way they do. Space would be possibly warmer, instead of cold. There are an insane number of possibilities. If we were to somehow travel to another universe, it would have completely different physics. That doesn't prove, however, that there's an infinitely powerful, infinitely knowing being watching over us.

edit: I play fantasy, 40k, necromunda, mordheim, and just got dreadfleet ^_^


Fuck yeah. I love the lore of necromunda. I think it's awesome how there are mutants living in Hives with recycled air and charging their laspacks on a fire.
Member
Posts: 20,461
Joined: Jun 16 2008
Gold: 722.53
Warn: 10%
Aug 16 2012 04:00am
Quote (Ylem122 @ Aug 16 2012 12:26am)
second law of thermo dynamics or maybe its the first one, im not sure? either way its entrophy cannot decrease in a closed system.

though i guess one would have to assume the universe is a closed system.


That depends on if the closed system is finite or infinite.
Member
Posts: 10,780
Joined: Jul 22 2011
Gold: 655.00
Aug 16 2012 04:15am
Quote (AEtheric @ Aug 16 2012 06:00am)
That depends on if the closed system is finite or infinite.


no.

that would conttradict the term closed system and the laws of thermo dynamics.

really the math problem 1/0 should be more then valid enough to prove that infinity can not exist in reality.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Aug 16 2012 04:21am
Member
Posts: 20,461
Joined: Jun 16 2008
Gold: 722.53
Warn: 10%
Aug 16 2012 04:24am
Quote (Ylem122 @ Aug 16 2012 04:15am)
no.

that would conttradict the term closed system and the laws of thermo dynamics.

really the math problem 1/0 should be more then valid enough to prove that infinity can not exist in reality.


Well then the universe is an open system. :)

And just because there are undefined terms in mathematics doesn't mean reality cannot have infinity. Just look at the transfinite numbers, or the hyperreal numbers, although that's beside the point. I, myself, have directly experienced infinity before. I have absolutely no doubt that it can exist.
Member
Posts: 10,780
Joined: Jul 22 2011
Gold: 655.00
Aug 16 2012 04:28am
Quote (AEtheric @ Aug 16 2012 06:24am)
Well then the universe is an open system. :)

And just because there are undefined terms in mathematics doesn't mean reality cannot have infinity. Just look at the transfinite numbers, or the hyperreal numbers, although that's beside the point. I, myself, have directly experienced infinity before. I have absolutely no doubt that it can exist.


as i said:

second law of thermo dynamics or maybe its the first one, im not sure? either way its entrophy cannot decrease in a closed system.

though i guess one would have to assume the universe is a closed system.

either you dont understand the point of my post or your just looking to argue, have a nice day.

Member
Posts: 20,461
Joined: Jun 16 2008
Gold: 722.53
Warn: 10%
Aug 16 2012 04:33am
Quote (Ylem122 @ Aug 16 2012 04:28am)
as i said:

second law of thermo dynamics or maybe its the first one, im not sure? either way its entrophy cannot decrease in a closed system.

though i guess one would have to assume the universe is a closed system.

either you dont understand the point of my post or your just looking to argue, have a nice day.


What? I just said that the universe is an open system, then. And I completely smashed you on the whoile 'infinity can't exist'.
Member
Posts: 10,780
Joined: Jul 22 2011
Gold: 655.00
Aug 16 2012 04:46am
Quote (AEtheric @ Aug 16 2012 06:33am)
What? I just said that the universe is an open system, then. And I completely smashed you on the whoile 'infinity can't exist'.


i was going to ignore you but it does seem like you really dont understand my post.

my point has been that thermodynamics wont allow infinity in a closed system but for this to disprove infinity you would have to assume the universe is a closed system.

it is not an argument that infinity is not possible only stipulations laying out a scenario in which infinity could not exist, with a note pointing that the existance of this scenario is meerly an assumption.

This post was edited by Ylem122 on Aug 16 2012 04:48am
Member
Posts: 31,209
Joined: Sep 26 2008
Gold: 0.00
Aug 16 2012 05:00am
Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 15 2012 10:50pm)
The new testament is tainted because of men. The Bible contained what Christ said, it directly has to be tainted since its recordings are in the Bible. God has 1 religion, and is merciful enough to constantly give us more chances. Islam is not a completely separate religion, its the same religion that has been passed down from Adam.


While the Koran and Muhammad are very specific about Christ, it still doesn't answer much about his life or teachings. For example, how does Islam address the sermon on the mount? I mean, why wouldn't there be an almost line by line analysis of what is and isn't correct within the bible given by Muhammad? I guess that's the part I don't understand. If the bible is tainted, either:

1) correct the mistakes.
2) give us the correct version and throw out everything we know.
3) reject the entire thing.

Instead, we get only a wee bit of information from Gabriel. But, we have no idea if Allah approves of us doing something recommended in the old and new treatments (such as gouging out your eyes for looking upon a woman with lust). Islam knows not to eat pork and Christ was born of a virgin. Islam also uses Arabic to keep the Koran pure to prevent misinterpretation. But then it ignores so many previous teachings?

Yeah, I don't buy that.

Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 15 2012 10:50pm)


Something material from nothing doesn't compute.

Thats why I didn't mention God specifically, I'm leaving it open for you to decide what is supernatural. If the supernatural thing wanted to be known, it would give its signs at the very least.


You're right it doesn't compute. Nobody who supports those theories thinks you can have something from nothing. The OP was setting go a strawman by stating atheists think the universe spontaneously came into being.

Quote (simpleforce @ Aug 15 2012 10:50pm)


" it would have completely different physics" -- It would? You mean a different physics model? I don't think so... although this does'nt have much to do with religion anyways.


It would change how things are positioned or our upstanding of how things work. For instance, if the universe is expanding like we think it is, then there still exists a finite amount of matter within the universe. As space expands as a result of the big bang, there's the potential that galaxies, stars, and eventually planets will be incredibly far apart. I.e. all life would cease to exist.

However, if the universe was started by a god with no big bang, then we're probably wrong as to why the universe is expanding. It also means it ends when said god says it ends. In this case, there is little we can do to understand our reality since the physics of it are based in the supernatural.

Quote (AEtheric @ Aug 16 2012 01:59am)
Fuck yeah. I love the lore of necromunda.  I think it's awesome how there are mutants living in Hives with recycled air and charging their laspacks on a fire.


40k is, imo, the best sci-fi franchise in existence. Fuck storm troopers and klingons, I want orks. With machine guns.

Necromunda is fun. It has some balance issues. It and mordheim are probably the cheapest GW games you can get into that can be built into a collection.

I just got a new camera. I need to start photographing my models for my portfolio.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1383940414274Next
Closed New Topic New Poll