Official Political Picture Thread - Topic

fender

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#38741

Jul 10 2020 08:59am

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 10 Jul 2020 16:44)

Nice fan fic. Unfortunately not true at all. Here's some actual recent polling, from March 2020:

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ft_2020.03.13_electoralcollege_01.png

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/03/13/a-majority-of-americans-continue-to-favor-replacing-electoral-college-with-a-nationwide-popular-vote/

Between 2016 and 2020, Pew found between 51 and 58% of Americans in favor of abolishing the EC. Trump's disapproval ratings have hovered in the range between 50 and 56%. Not a coincidence if you ask me.
Also, 2012 is the only time there was a majority of Republicans in favor of abolishing it, and even then, 54% is not the solid majority you were claiming. Polls from any other year show a clear majority of Republicans rejecting the idea.

Needless to say that you handpicked polls from 2012, the one time where Republicans were also (marginally) supporting an end to the EC. And like I already explained, the EC had favored the Dems in 2004, 2008 and 2012, so this timing is easy to explain. It also explains why Democratic support for abolishing it was at its lowest in 2012. 'Honi soit qui mal y pense' indeed. :evil:

read again, my very 'special' friend:

Quote (fender @ 10 Jul 2020 16:05)

funny how you always have time to fantasise about and attack me personally, but regularly disappear from fact based arguments. honi soit qui mal y pense...

look up ANY poll from the last two decades when the EC did not overturn the popular vote, and you will find solid majorities on BOTH sides in favour of abandoning it for the reasons i previously explained, but that you mysteriously (not really) did NOT address, lol.

even when the EC, according to you, favoured dems, they were still greatly in favour of abolishing it. nice own goal there. also, 60-31 amongst republicans is not 'marginally', you hack - the only time where it's even close (though still in favour of abandoning) is when republicans benefit from it to overturn an election lost by millions of votes, because as usual their position is less principled, and more based on personal political interest.

and all of that still doesn't address my point that in reality, the electoral college leads to a hyperfocus on fringe issues and small populations to the detriment of the rest of the country, doing exactly the OPPOSITE of what it's supposed to achieve, and that it makes millions of votes virtually useless.

This post was edited by fender on Jul 10 2020 09:03am

Black XistenZ

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#38742

Jul 10 2020 09:15am

Quote (fender @ 10 Jul 2020 16:59)

read again, my very 'special' friend:

even when the EC, according to you, favoured dems, they were still greatly in favour of abolishing it. nice own goal there. also, 60-31 amongst republicans is not 'marginally',

stopped reading here - where the fuck did you get this number from? In 2012, it's 62-35 among the entire population, and 54% in favor among Republicans.

PEW unfortunately doesnt have a partisan breakdown for 2004 or 2008, but overall opinion moved by just 4% in the direction of abolishing in 2004 (when compared with 2000). it's thus reasonable to assume that opinion among republicans did not move by more than those 4% over this timeframe, leaving 44% support for abolishing it among republicans as a reasonable upper bound for 2004.

bogie160

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#38743

Jul 10 2020 09:25am

Quote (fender @ Jul 10 2020 09:00am)

funny how your exciting real life always calls EXACTLY you when you're being humiliated and your bs is exposed. nothing prevents you from replying when you come back from your adventures, i think we both know why you didn't (again) though, right?

all those flimsy talking points in favour of the EC have been debunked countless times. the US are right down the middle (in comparison with its peer countries) when it comes to urbanisation. in not a single country does that mean that rural areas get neglected to a degree that is worse than in the US. the EC actually does the OPPOSITE of its original intention, by making the presidential candidates draft and focus legislation on certain voting groups in particularly contested swing states, and spend disproportionate amounts of money on comparatively irrelevant industries and issues, that happen to be important there. it also makes millions of votes in solid red or blue state virtually worthless.

its downsides are so bad, that in times where the EC is not required to justify a president who has lost the popular vote by millions, even republicans are in favour of abandoning it by a huge margin (61-30): ( https://news.gallup.com/poll/159881/americans-call-term-limits-end-electoral-college.aspx )

Popular support is not an argument on merit.

Btw, what is your problem? You are completely incapable of having a civil discussion.

fender

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#38744

Jul 10 2020 09:26am

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 10 Jul 2020 17:15)

stopped reading here - where the fuck did you get this number from? In 2012, it's 62-35 among the entire population, and 54% in favor among Republicans.

you stopped reading much earlier, apparently, it's in the very first poll i linked two pages ago, a gallup poll from jan 2013: https://news.gallup.com/poll/159881/americans-call-term-limits-end-electoral-college.aspx

and conveniently you 'stopped reading' before having to address any substance about the EC, and rather you chose the arguing that the MAJORITY(!) of people in favour of abandoning it isn't that large as your hill to die on - even though it's still a majority. what a coincidence, lol.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 10 Jul 2020 17:15)

PEW unfortunately doesnt have a partisan breakdown for 2004 or 2008, but overall opinion moved by just 4% in the direction of abolishing in 2004 (when compared with 2000). it's thus reasonable to assume that opinion among republicans did not move by more than those 4% over this timeframe, leaving 44% support for abolishing it among republicans as a reasonable upper bound for 2004.

republican support (and i'm referencing YOUR source now) moved a whopping 27%, and exactly for the reason i mentioned before (to justify 'winning' an election despite losing the popular vote by almost three million votes), whereas democrats 'only' swayed by 12%, yet again demonstrating who is more principled on the issue itself.

This post was edited by fender on Jul 10 2020 09:28am

fender

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#38745

Jul 10 2020 09:30am

Quote (bogie160 @ 10 Jul 2020 17:25)

Popular support is not an argument on merit.

Btw, what is your problem? You are completely incapable of having a civil discussion.

correct, it's just an indicator - that's why i REPEATEDLY asked him to address the arguments i made to debunk his narratives in favour of the EC, but he refuses to do that.

so if you feel the need to comment, maybe read the whole conversation, so you don't look so biased.

Meanwhile

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#38746

Jul 10 2020 10:56am

Quote (fender @ 10 Jul 2020 15:37)

the dog whistles are deafening, but some of his supporters still claim he's the least racist person alive. it's mindblowing really.

Building a core of fanatic supporters has some advantages, like getting a strong impulse on social media.
What Trump didn't realize is that after few years of this, he also built a core of hard opponents. Divisive like fuck.

excellence

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#38747

Jul 10 2020 11:01am

Quote (bogie160 @ 10 Jul 2020 11:25)

Popular support is not an argument on merit.

Btw, what is your problem? You are completely incapable of having a civil discussion.

his ancestor joseph and his buddy adolf lost the war and ended it all in the bunkers, which upsets fender aka heinrich von goebbels

Meanwhile

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