alright, I seem to have misunderstood you, sorry about that.
but since conservatives, social democrats and liberals will have to work together to retain a majority for the "old forces", their internal tensions, conflicts and backstabbing will imho dominate the agenda, irrespective of which opposition group (Greens or right-wingers) will turn out to be the leading group within the opposition.

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one thing though: in all current and previous projections, viktor orban's fidesz party is still considered a part of the EPP group, even though he is on "probation", has already stated that he wont support their candidate Weber and is much closer to the populists in terms of policy. If Fidesz with its 13 MEPs leaves the EPP group and joins either the ECR or the ENF group, which imho isnt unlikely at all, then those would have slightly more seats than the Greens and technically be the leading opposition group.

not that this would make too much of a difference either way, but it's something to keep an eye on.

Oh, that I didn't know. I thought Fidesz was out. I think they'd be a much better fit for ACRE.

In a German newspaper article that I read today, they speculate that Orban would support an EPP candidate for Commission President if it is not Weber, but some woman from Lithunia with a complicated name that I cant remember.

They would, of course, have to make additional concessions to Orban for this support, for example an end to the investigations against his Fidesz party and less criticsm of his policies. Imho, they shouldnt do that, he doesnt fit into the EPP and would indeed be a better fit for one of the three right-wing groups.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 27 2019 11:31am

I don't think he'd fit in ENF or EFDD though. The first is outright europhobic (which Orbán isn't; he's just eurosceptic and doesn't want further integration), and the second one is more of a populist alt-right modern mishmash (imo no place for a traditional party like Fidesz).

I think that by far ACRE is by far the group that best embodies what Orbán represents: Traditional christian conservative parties in favour of strict law enforcement, that want an EU centered around economic and geopolitical cooperation, with little to no political sovereignty over the member states. Imo it's the only place Fidesz should be... not EPP, ENF or EFDD. Their place is ACRE along with the Polish PiS.

if you look at the EPP personnel i can totally see them adapting a merkel style policy from now
gather votes from anywhere even if its from the leftists and greens



say that in germany and you are literally hitler

This post was edited by ampoo on May 27 2019 12:15pm

Iirc there was a party within ACRE they couldn't work with. In march there was a lobby going on to splinter off from EPP if a polish party would join them (probably PiS). It can still be going on, or Fidesz will try to influence the EPP, trying to make it more about immigration from within.

Might have to do with one of the Slovak members, as there are disputes between both countries in issues such as borders and minorities (both the Slovaks in Hungary and the Hungarians in Slovakia).

That somewhat rings a bell, but can't find the source anymore.

Hmm anyways, I'm okey with the results during these elections. The green won quite a bit, lifting of agenda's of more main stream parties getting quite a bit of attention for the energy wende. It's a bit of a shame that the green party is still somewhat small for a large impact, but then again, climate becoming more important for the large parties and thereby becoming a more important debate during these elections and in the future, does show a green shift in Europe, lets hope they can influence European legislation a bit more with the seats they have.

There is also still a win on the right populist side ofc. With potentially quite a few Europhobe voters not showing up, and we've got a further fragmentation of European power distributed over more parties. Which isn't inherently bad for democracy, but will slow down progression for the better of worse.
Im also okey with the Brexit effect; less citizens wanting to leave the EU (I can't complain), getting the farther right wing parties not wanting to leave the EU anymore as well (it is ofc difficult to get ppl mobilized to vote, if parties don't want to take part in the EU).

/e: for black X and Ampoo. I'd agree with a few more nuclear plants for the coming 50 years. Yet, trying to avoid them, would probably spur innovation a bit more, it's more of a gamble though, you guys wanna play it safe ?

This post was edited by Knoppie on May 27 2019 04:36pm

Agreed, but I think it will be impossible to avoid them. Even if we maximize the potential of solar and wind energy (water energy has a veeery narrow potential due to geographic limitations), we still have no technology yet to store enough of it for longer periods of low renewable energy production, let alone seasonal variation in sunshine duration/intensity. There's no way around nuclear power as a bridge technology.

Perhaps it will be possible to use excess energy from renewable sources to produce hydrogen, which can then be used as fuel or even in hydrogen-based power plants during the winter.
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusina_hydrogen_power_station, hydrogen power is 5-6 times more expensive than conventional energy - but if we one day reach a point where renewables can produce more than 100% of our power demand on sunny summer or windy autumn days, we could use this excess power to produce hydrogen for free and hydrogen power plants would become economically competitive.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 27 2019 04:43pm

It's expensive because it wastes a lot of energy, yet it might work for Germany if we can't find buffers elsewhere. (again, nuclear power plants would reduce the need for buffers in this regard, playing it safe )

I'm actually quite fond of the simple stone on a cable type of storage for countries with mountains, such an efficient, simple and easy solution. (making me kinda jelly) , yet still, we have to make the most of what we have, different innovations from different countries with different resources. There is a good chance to see quite a few diverse innovations ^

This post was edited by Knoppie on May 27 2019 05:39pm